EB news - Sunday, February 6

[khelvan]

Greetings, Europa Barbarorum fans!

This week's major news item is, of course, the release of the 1.2 patch. Several fixes have made us happy, including the upping of the unit limit from 300 to 500. (We are very happy about this, though the bottleneck remains the 255 model limit) However, several things have set us back a bit. First, many of our new models and textures have been causing crashes, though we believe we may have pinpointed the source. Second, horse archers now act in an ahistorical manner. We believe we have found a solution for this, though it is not completely elegant. We're testing it as I write this, and hopefully we'll have something to tell you in the next few days.

We're currently spending a lot of time testing new ideas for fine-tuning the map I showed you last week. We're also going through the intensive process of determining if we can add new factions. We should have a definitive "yes" or "no" on this by the end of the week. Jerome Grasdyke stated here that we can do so:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=37359

So far we have been unsuccessful. Our current challenge seems to be locating the file in which a faction is assigned a culture. Along with that we are searching for where cultures are defined, though this is not a necessity.

I have several new items to show this week. I would like to introduce some of the work of one of our newest members, Spartan Warrior. These are skinned and modelled by him:

The most basic and numerous of the infantry units used by the non-European Successor States were the Pantodapoi infantry. These men were called from a variety of nationalities and were usually settled in certain areas for garrison duties and the like.

Ptolemaic Pantodapoi:


Seleucid Pantodapoi:


I wanted to introduce to you some of the detailed work that goes into our process of making units. Prometheus has been hard at work modelling and skinning the four-horned saddle, a common type of saddle used by multiple factions. Here you can see his work on the saddle on one of his works in progress, a cataphract horse. Keep in mind, this is not finished yet - I merely want to show you the sort of detail that Prometheus, and the rest of the team, go through when creating units:



Finally, I wanted to introduce another of Parmenio's faction icons. This one is Germanic:



You can find last week's news item, including a preview of our new map, here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=42840

Until next time, take care!

Cheers,

-the EB team

[Dooz]

Oh, how sweet it is...

[Sheep]

That horse is already beautiful... it's hard to believe you could make it any better!! Poor horse though, that can't be fun to wear.

[The_Emperor]

Good news indeed.

I like the new Pantodapoi units. Fits in very well with what I have posted and read about in the past.

That Four-horned saddle also looks great...

[Pycckuu]

they look great

[Crazed Rabbit]

I don't know if this is the right thread to ask this, but since this is the news thread, and I couldn't find it in the FAQ...

Anyways, I was just wondering why you guys closed the screenshot thread. I thought it was a great thread, full of beautiful skins that gave a lot to the community and really showed off the changes you are making. Are you guys going to start up a new one soon?

Crazed Rabbit

[khelvan]

We are taking a more organized approach to community relations. These news threads have replaced the monster screenshot threads that existed before.

[Crownsteler]

Just wondering then, are the units posted in the news topics, pictures of all the completed units that week, or just a small selection?

[khelvan]

In general, just a selection. We think leaving some things to be surprises is a good idea.

[Sarcasm]

So how will the community be able to contribute to the thinking process of modelling a unit, if it can see its progress? You are basically closing any input regarding the visual aspect of the game by people who wish to contribute but are not part or were not allowed (not judging) in that select group.

Even if you have absolute certainty in your group´s ability (which is tremendous, I might add) it will still only be their particular vision.

You can save a lot of work after EB is released, if you are willing to accept outside opinions, in correcting possible errors in the making of said units.

No disrespect intended.

[Steppe Merc]

The thing is, while I'm sure some people have great ideas, a lot more trouble has occured from allowing non member's more access than good. A lot of people were very insulting and hostile towards us, accusing us of not sharing our units and stuff. Which is somewhat true, but we want to make sure that our game is the most historically accurate as possible, and don't really like some not historical modders use our units for their twisted version of history.
But we aren't elitists, just want our vision to be released at one time, rather than a little at a time, especially if that vision will be changed later on.

So it's nothing personal, but more harm than good became of us posting a whole lot of info.

[Crownsteler]

In general, just a selection. We think leaving some things to be surprises is a good idea.

okey, thats good i suppose... if you'd only complete 2 units a week... i wouldn't want to know how long it would take to complete the mod then.. ;)

[Big_John]

it will still only be their particular vision.

isn't that particular vision kind of the point of EB?

[khelvan]

There will be opportunity for those who wish to contribute to comment during our closed beta process. We have found, however, that most of the comments made here in the public forum either conflict with primary research or reflect discussions we have already had and made a decision upon. At some point we have to decide who dictates what the units will look like, and we have had no reason to distrust the group of people we have doing the research for us.

That isn't to say we don't welcome outside input. We do, we just want to do it in a more organized way. Hence, the closed beta, and a process we'll have for making suggestions and discussing what we find.

[Sarcasm]

I´m talking about releasing your models and skins per se, I was talking about submiting screenshots so they could be discussed on purpousely made threads. Promotheus´thread was a perfect example of this (aside from the ocasional flame war);He did a model, people commented on it, corrections were made, and very good models came out of it.

Isn´t there a way to keep insulting users from accessing the EB forum? Maybe edit/delete incorrect posts?

I would have loved to be inside your group, alas, I wasn´t fast enough . That´s one of the reasons why I´m disapointed by your decision. The others, in my view, are very pratical in nature. It is a simple equation, really; If you have more opinions/visual options, then you´re that more likely to find the correct result.

C´mon people, this is a community mod after all

[khelvan]

Again, there will be an opportunity for someone like you, who has an interest in providing feedback, to do so: our beta test. I wasn't talking about releasing skins either, since that was never even a consideration for us.

Yes, this is a community mod, but the team decided a while ago that to grow larger would be a mistake, that it would only slow things down, not speed them up. "Too many cooks..." and all that. We aren't so much a separate team, but a subset of the community as a whole, and will involve the community as a whole in a more organized manner.

When you join the beta team you'll be able to see not only the unit, but its full description and history. Many times these aren't clear to the public, they just see a screenshot and make a judgement based off of it. So sometimes the feedback is based on invalid assumptions. Really, giving fully educated feedback would usually mean being a part of pages and pages of historical discussions, where we debate minute unit details.

So really, closed beta is the best place to both understand the units in context, and provide valuable feedback that is based on a full understanding of what we're presenting.

So until then, we felt an organized approach to showing glimpses of new units was best, and the beta will be an opportunity for heavy discussion.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I´m talking about releasing your models and skins per se, I was talking about submiting screenshots so they could be discussed on purpousely made threads. Promotheus´thread was a perfect example of this (aside from the ocasional flame war);He did a model, people commented on it, corrections were made, and very good models came out of it.

And very good models come out of EB now, right? Most of the comments that really matter are made within the restricted forums. No lost on accuracy.

Those pics threads were made in good faith. But some just insulted us, so, we'll abstain from posting in the way we did.

Isn´t there a way to keep insulting users from accessing the EB forum? Maybe edit/delete incorrect posts?

Nope. Not on the open forums. They are "open" for a reason.

I would have loved to be inside your group, alas, I wasn´t fast enough . That´s one of the reasons why I´m disapointed by your decision. The others, in my view, are very pratical in nature. It is a simple equation, really; If you have more opinions/visual options, then you´re that more likely to find the correct result.

The guides that matter are from historians and we have very good ones at EB. It's not a case of good suggestions, it's a case of accuracy.

[Crazed Rabbit]

A lot of people were very insulting and hostile towards us, accusing us of not sharing our units and stuff.

From what I observed (by no means everything) most of this happened at the TWC. And shutting out the whole community, the vast majority of whom are respectful, because of a few bad apples, seems almost like a kindergarten punishment.

I think it might be possible if you were to have screenshot threads like before, but make it clear to people that, for all intents and purposes, the finished model has been decided, and you're just trying to catch little flaws. I think the screenshot threads added a lot to your mod by showing the process you guys go through in designing units.

About your closed beta; how do you envision people joining that? Will there be a strict limit on the amount of people, or will it be more open? Either way, I'd like to join to provide feedback for this great mod.

Crazed Rabbit

[Sarcasm]

I agree whith CR. This isn´t Marine school...this "platoon" shouldn´t be punished for what one guy did (Private Pile from Full Metal Jacket came to mind ). But that´s just my opinion. It´s a valid argument nonetheless.

To say that the opinions of people outside the modding team are irrelevant is arrogant to say the least. I can accept the argument that you are trying to persue a particular view of history, just don´t say its completely accurate (well as acurate as one can be by making theories on events that took place more than 2000 years ago....in case you try to argue on this) even if you have people like Unramma onboard.

To me it´s that simple....more opinions, even from a statistics point of view gives you better chance to get the "perfect" unit.

....well....it´s your mod. Don´t mind me....

Where do I sign to give my contribution in Beta testing then? (PM me....if I get lucky....).

PS1:To the one who gave me the "edit" function

PS2: Já agora como vão esses Lusitani/Turdetani/Vaccei ou qualquer que sejam as tribos representadas no jogo?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I agree whith CR. This isn´t Marine school...this "platoon" shouldn´t be punished for what one guy did (Private Pile from Full Metal Jacket came to mind ). But that´s just my opinion. It´s a valid argument nonetheless.

So is ours...

To say that the opinions of people outside the modding team are irrelevant is arrogant to say the least.

Where did I say that? Tell me...

I can accept the argument that you are trying to persue a particular view of history, just don´t say its completely accurate (well as acurate as one can be by making theories on events that took place more than 2000 years ago....in case you try to argue on this) even if you have people like Unramma onboard.

It's never competelly accurate for several reasons:

-Hard-coded limits.
-AI limits.
-Available Historical information.
-Etc...

But it is much more accurate than vanilla, as well as a suficiently faithfull portrait of the era.

To me it´s that simple....more opinions, even from a statistics point of view gives you better chance to get the "perfect" unit.

And once again where did I say that imput isn't apreciated? Re-read my post...

PS1:To the one who gave me the "edit" function

TosaInu and the Forum moderators.

PS2: Já agora como vão esses Lusitani/Turdetani/Vaccei ou qualquer que sejam as tribos representadas no jogo?

Vão bem obrigado...

[khelvan]

Contrary to the feeling here, I did not propose the current format to punish people for being insulting. There are many reasons that we have moved to our current format.

The primary reason was to organize our public relations much in the same way that we have organized every aspect of working on the mod. This enables us to have a consistent message, and a controlled release of information. One thing that is important to us is providing a release to the public where people will go "Wow, just wow! I had no idea you were working on this!"

We cannot achieve that if every single unit that we make is paraded in front of you.

No one said that public feedback is irrelevant. Not one of us is arrogant enough to think that we have all the answers. None of us are prideful enough to state that we will never re-examine our work if it is shown that our work is inaccurate in some way.

However, there is a vehicle for this. The closed beta. We will be announcing a sign-up for the closed beta, and we will likely have an area where only our beta testers can post. This, like the other ways we organize our work, is for reasons such as cutting down on spam, getting only the feedback from those who have all the relevant information to give the feedback, and so on.

[DemonArchangel]

Please, PLEASE reverse the spear hand!

[khelvan]

Every single unit in the game holds weapons this way. I don't think we can fix it.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Please, PLEASE reverse the spear hand!

Please hold a spear (or a long tube) while standing in that position. If you pay attention, the hand position isn't incorrect, but the texturing might give the wrong impression of the hand being turned around.