spearmen with secondary CTD

**blindfaithnogod** · 02-09-2005, 01:02

ive been having a problem with spearmen who have a sword as a secondary weapon. if i dont give them the phalanx formation option then they cause a CTD once they ingage in close hand to hand combat. ive come to the comclusion that archers, legionary type units, mounted units, and phalanx units are the only unit types which the game will alow. anyone have any ideas.

**Legionario** · 02-10-2005, 22:39

Yes it is it....you cannot give a spearmen ( primary weapon) a sword as secondary...they will CTD unless it's Phalanx,very stupid...but you can give a spear as "secondary weapon" to a Javelineer,instead of the sword,anyway you have to change the Cas,delete the sword,give a spear and remap it for the texture,otherwise it will be invisible...

**Tulius Hostilius** · 02-10-2005, 23:43

Hey!
Legionario, can you explain that better.
I am having some problem in transforming Carthaginian town militia in a javelin/spear unit.
What do you mean with “remap it for the texture”? Do you mean that the skin file doesn’t fit?

**Bob the Insane** · 02-12-2005, 10:35

I posted my new thread without reading this first and it sounds likee a very similar issue, so if anyone could explain furhter you have an audience of at least two... :)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43481

**Bob the Insane** · 02-13-2005, 13:31

I don't know about javalin/spear combo, but what I have seen is if you give a spear unit a secondary melee weapon and that unit is not set to phalanx then you get CTD...

I personally have not tried giving a missile unit a spear as their secondary weapon, but is worth checking out my thread above for some CA dev advice (it really helped me!)...

**JeromeGrasdyke** · 02-13-2005, 18:34

Originally Posted by Legionario

Yes it is it... you cannot give a spearmen (primary weapon) a sword as secondary... they will CTD unless it's Phalanx, very stupid.

Ahum. You can give most units a secondary weapon, which you do by filling in a non-zero attack value in that unit's stats in export_descr_unit.txt, but you also have to make sure that the model (.cas files) used by that unit actually has a secondary weapon (not entirely sure what will happen if it doesn't - possibly the model will just display without a weapon when it's using secondary), and that the model type description in descr_model_battle.txt properly lists a second skeleton for the secondary weapon.

Units which cannot have a secondary weapon are those where the secondary weapon stats are already used for something else: dog handlers, siege artillery, elephants, chariots are all cases where this is true.

**Red Harvest** · 02-13-2005, 19:36

Suggestion for Jerome to consider: Javelin/thrusting spear combos should be available. These seem to have been rather common historically, and could be used to fill out some of the unit cards for Gaul/Brittania/Spain/Numidia as low level infantry. Even the early principes probably used some sort of pila/spear combination based on some descriptions by Dionysius (quoting Pyrrhus) and Polybius/Livy. (I've wanted to do an interpretation of the pre-Polybian legion in game.) You can't make one now without doing a CAS edit, because when I have done so I end up with no weapon displayed in melee or a knife/sword depending on the base model I started with. I don't have the software to do CAS file edits myself. Legionaro did one with a CAS edit of scutarii and it looked quite good. Seems like I also tried it using a spearman as a base unit, but then he is throwing his spear backwards...funny to watch.

Too bad weapons can't be added more independently to the models (shields too.) The skeletons already dictate how the weapon is oriented and employed (granted shields are a lot more complicated.) The modularization CA used is good and works well for much of this, but it would be much more flexible from a new unit build standpoint if the weapons could be more independent...relying on the skeletons, and stat_pri for their employment, rather than the CAS. That could allow a given unit to employ virtually any weapon: falcata, falx, axe, gladius, long sword, short spear (short_pike), Iphicratid spear (spear), sarissa (long_pike), bows, javelins, pila, mace, etc.

**Legionario** · 02-14-2005, 12:24

Sorry Jerome, it does not work,i tried all the ways but you'll never be able to make a Spearman use its secondary weapon,even givin' them a "solid" weapon in the Cas file and giving the right Skeletons "fs_spearman fs-swordsman" or any combination you like,I've been able instead to make a unit be Javelineer/ spearman , using the Scutarius Cas , exchangin' the sword with a spear,and givin' it the Javelin- spearman skeletons,it works quite perfectly,once they have depleted the javelins they switch to spear and fight with that,also they walk with spears in hand;
so it seems an issue that You CA should address,it must have to do with animation or whatever in the code,but you cannot have a spearman/swordsman workin' ,unless you give 'em Phalanx formation,wich is not the case unless you wanna go Greek style;
I would like if you could investigate about this thing deeply,it would add a lot
for us....

Red:

Too bad weapons can't be added more independently to the models (shields too.) The skeletons already dictate how the weapon is oriented and employed (granted shields are a lot more complicated.) The modularization CA used is good and works well for much of this, but it would be much more flexible from a new unit build standpoint if the weapons could be more independent...relying on the skeletons, and stat_pri for their employment, rather than the CAS. That could allow a given unit to employ virtually any weapon: falcata, falx, axe, gladius, long sword, short spear (short_pike), Iphicratid spear (spear), sarissa (long_pike), bows, javelins, pila, mace, etc.

Well this is not entirely true,you can actually change the weapons as you wish,providing you have the ability to edit the Cas file with 3 D Studio Max or G Max,same for the shields,I do this almost for all my units, since I did not like many of them,but using waht is already provided with the default Cas, you have a ready "library" of hardware to use at your own will...

the only weapon wich has a bacward orientation,is the missile one ( javelins etc..etc..) if you respect this, can do whatever you like with them,shields are even easier to change,most of the times you only need to edit tha Alfa channel for it,whe that's not possible,you can use an existing one from another unit ,or build it up yourself,then it must be mapped ( textured) otherwise it will not show correctly,as it happens when you changed secondary and not seen it..it was because it had no Mappin' in the right spot of the Tga file.
I'll try to explain better:
the Scutarius has a primary weapon,a Javelin, and a secondary weapon, a sword,open the Cas, detach and delete the sword,then build from scratch or import a Spear,attach to the model, link it to the Bone it's going to be used from ( the right arm bone in this case) otherwise it won't move,export it;
then change the unit's stats in the proper Txt file for giving it the right skeletons and all,try it in the game and....it will walk with nothin' into his hands (they walk with the secondary weapon in hand) then when committed,they'll launch the Javelins OK..and then they'll try to switch to secondary ( the Spear we added) and again the'll have nothin' in hand....
that's because the spear IS into the Cas file OK,but...it has no texture,so you have to open the Cas again,select the spear, "unwrap UV" and then mapping it to the right place on the TGA file where the Spear texture lies...
that's it.....

So unless you can use 3 D Studio properly,it's a pain to do this things....

cheers

**JeromeGrasdyke** · 02-14-2005, 13:14

Originally Posted by Legionario

even givin' them a "solid" weapon in the Cas file and giving the right Skeletons "fs_spearman fs-swordsman" or any combination you like

The skeleton names in descr_model_battle.txt have to be exactly correct, for example "fs_spearman, fs_swordsman" (the comma is important, and it's case sensitive); and there has to be a non-zero attack value in the unit stats in export_descr_unit.txt -- and voila, it works.

And it should be entirely possible to set up a javelin / thrusting-spear combination by modding the text files, although you're right in that someone will have to create the model for you. The reason why the weapons are not seperate is mainly for engine performance reasons, although it makes life easy for our artists, as well