spearmen with secondary CTD

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Well, guys a reply from JeromeGrasdyke would be excellent but he seems to have gone silent...

In the meantime, this might sound stupid but, maybe, this thread should be pinned. It's an important and puzzling matter, and it would save many people time and questions...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

To the moderators: Thanks for pinning this...

[Legionario]

Since it works only with phalanxes units,and they have something wich is hardcoded ( dedicated animations etc..etc..) this may be where the problem lies.... ....in fact when assigning a spearman skeleton and then a secondary,without the phalanx formation,it CTDs as soon as they are ordered to attack e.g. switching to secondary set of animations.
. ...........

[Epistolary Richard]

Thanks to LAca, for this:

The unit has sper for primary and sword for secondary weapon... I managed to get it work by using only the spearmen skeleton for both weapons ( using fs_spearman, fs_swordsman crashes the game right after the unit charges). I tested it and works well (excepting that the sword animations are only those of thrusting, not the slashing ones).

The thing i dont like is the fact that the unit charges with the swords and then it switches to spears (despite the fact that the spear has higher charge bonus). It seems that the ai charges with the secondary weapon if u order to charge with the primary then switches to primary (if u order alt+attack, it doesnt switch to primary). Its not that big of a problem, but can this behaviour be changed somehow?
...
type numidian_triarii
skeleton fs_spearman, fs_spearman ; combat spear
indiv_range 40
texture numidia, data/models_unit/textures/numidian_triarii
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/numidian_triarii.cas, 8
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/numidian_triarii.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_triarii_lp.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_triarii_very_lp.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_triarii_very_lp.cas, max
model_sprite 60.0
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

To see the full post see here.

[LAca]

Hmm. I didnt know this thing was that big of an issue... It took me a few hours to figure it out...
I assumed if cavalry can have spears and swords, why cant the infantry? I searched the forums but i couldnt find anything conclusive on this matter. I started by changing in the export_descr_unit.txt file the infantry rypes, swapping the primary and secondary weapons, but didnt work. Then i thought that maybe the problem is with the skeleton changing, cause i saw that prior the ctd the unit changes weapons a few times and then the game crashes. Using a single skeleton once still crashes the game, but twice, for each weapon, it seems to work. The skeleton, as i see it, points to the animations, the game really doesnt care what the guy holds in his hands (doesnt know if it has spear or sword, only that the respective weapon has bonuses (mount_effect), is thrown and the like). Seems that if u specify spear in the stat_pri_attr line (phalanx unit style) it adds anti cav bonuses (i tested against horses, i cant say if has against chariots, camels) to the respective weapon - i read somewhere that anti cavalry bonuses may be "inherited" by secondary weapons aswell.

If im wrong, somebody correct me please, i say what i think about the game mechanics, i read little about these things, and most things i write here observed myself by trial and error.

[Suraknar]

Alright,

I have tryed this myself too, and I have to repport that it does CDT.

In 10 tries it only worked once... I was able to Switch the weapons during the melee back and forth too. Then the enemy unit routed..but they regrooped, and so I ordered my unit to attack them again and at that engagement it CDTed...

So this was not an overall success either in reality, and it may have just been a coincidence, as both units were marching to one another and I think my unit got charged first before it could charge...

Consistent with the rest of the thread here, if you leave em defend it will not CDT.

In my case it was the Greek Heavy Peltasts, I first converted them in to a Phalanx with Spear unit, that worked like a charm.

Then removed Spear pri_attr and Phalanx formation, leaving them as fs_spearman, fs_swordsman and it CDTed.

I read about the fs_spearman, fs_spearman solution, I just wanted to try different combination of the actual fs_spearman, fs_swordsman without phalanx.

I even tryed changing weapon types, instead of Simple put blade, also tryed giving one weapon other attributes like body_piercing...same results all over...CDT...

...when ordered to charge with primary they do switch to secondary weapon in the charging phase, then switch back to the primary once engaged, the CDT follows shortly after...

I believe this to be something in the engine all together, the game was just not made to use two melee weapons, the fact that they switch to secondary for the charge even if they were ordered to charge with primary is proving this.

If we observe the behavior of a normal Pelatast unit or velite or archer, when they are ordered to primary attack the game will evaluate availability of ammunition, and use the secondary weapon to perform the charge, NOT ex[pecting this unit to switch back to their Bows or primary Ranged attack while they are already engaged, however by giving the unit two melee weapons, we force the game to make that switch and that causes the CDT...from what I can observe.

It is therefore an issue with how the code is being run...processing issue (within my limited understand of coding), all other factors being properly set up.

As such, if we use fs_spearman, fs_spearman, even if the graphics change to between primary/secondary weapon, in terms of processing there is no exception being made as the game expects fs_spearman, and it gets fs_spearman...

In that Logic we could expect it to work also with fs_swordsman, fs_swordsman...

Which could open some possibilities here...

If we were to make for instance a fs_maceman animation, and have a unit with both Maces and Short Swords, it would work fine and these units have have both a melee attack with blunt and a melee attack with piarcing weapons...

Provided that we put fs_maceman, fs_maceman...