In beta?

[BobTheTerrible]

I'm sorry but why do so many people refer to Rome: Total War as being still in beta? This here really boils my potatoes. The game is definately not a beta. Just because the game didn't live up to your expectations doesn't mean that it's still a beta. There are bugs, yes, but medieval wasn't perfect either. I think all of you complainers want the game to be just like medieval. Well, it's a different game, folks. Don't just make posts here to bash CA. It really ruins things for me when I come to the boards here, and just see post after post about how bad the game is.

I mean, I haven't seen any of the veteran posters start up a thread about something they like about the game. I have yet to see a thread about how fun it is just to watch men swordfight (and even writing this I know someone will counter with "it's hard to watch the sowrdfight when it's over in 5 seconds" or even "well the hastati behaving ahistorically so it takes the fun out")

Almost every single game on the market has bugs. Many games have worse AI than Rome's. In fact, Rome is the only game of its type out now (to my knwoledge) so if you don't like it, don't just make post after post ripping it apart. It's just a game guys, if you don't like it, there's no reason to be bashing CA over it. Nobody forced you to buy the game, so you shouldn't be angry at CA for taking your money for a "broken product." Again, if you don't like it, either mod it or leave it, don't dwell on it to make it worse for others.

[Colovion]

The vanilla release of Rome was deffinately a beta product. Now most of the bugs are fiixed and it's pretty good, but there are still some problems which will probably be fixed in the expansion; though I'm actually mostly looking forward to the Europa Barbarorum mod. RTW was deffinately a revolution in the series, as revolutions are rather abrasive in nature.

[Productivity]

Sorry, why can't we complain?

Because every other game has bugs? That's insane logic. You are saying that because an industry has bad standards, nobody should try and change them.

Because it's just a game? It's a game we gave our money for, so it's the same as any other faulty/defective good. I fail to see why people put games on a pedestal as being unworthy of complaint when compared to other consumer goods.

Nobody forced me to buy the game? True, nobody did. Nobody forced you to buy a car, so if it doesn't work do you sit and take it?

[Zalmoxis]

Nobody forced me to buy the game? True, nobody did. Nobody forced you to buy a car, so if it doesn't work do you sit and take it?

Actually, someone did mforce me. His name was Sam and he was a car salesman, very despressed man, made me sign the contract at gunpoint.

[Productivity]

Actually, someone did mforce me. His name was Sam and he was a car salesman, very despressed man, made me sign the contract at gunpoint.

Then the contract is not legally binding due to duress.

[Zalmoxis]

Then the contract is not legally binding due to duress.

That's not what the judge said...

[Productivity]

That's not what the judge said...

Appeal

[Wh1teWolf]

The first release realy had problems but now it is a top notch top quality game that deserves game of the year!!!!

The only people complaining are the punk kids that complain about everything in these forums anyhow you can see the complainers post and in every post they make it is complaining and throwing of tantrums so just ignore the ignorant ones.

[m4rt14n]

Lol @ the car sales....

[Wh1teWolf]

Oh look there is another one.

[FURRY_BOOTS]

The vanilla release of Rome was deffinately a beta product. Now most of the bugs are fiixed and it's pretty good, but there are still some problems which will probably be fixed in the expansion; though I'm actually mostly looking forward to the Europa Barbarorum mod. RTW was deffinately a revolution in the series, as revolutions are rather abrasive in nature.

i would never have thought, but now it makes sense, some of the bugs were so blatantly obvious that shows the game wasnt properly tested, if tested at all. if thats true then thats pretty poor, CA were counting on non total war players not to notice, & because TW veterans are the minority then they can put up & shut up unless they make enough noise then well give them a patch
, the biggest game of all time HL2 was released with virtually no bugs, rome could have been the same

[The Stranger]

where can you get the europa barbarorum mod when its ready

[MacBeth]

The game doesn't seem to inspire the same kind of wonderful tactics, strategy & battle threads that we used to enjoy on these boards during MTW.

My love of the TW series has been diluted in direct proportion to its new mass appeal - hurry up with HOI2 Paradox.

[SpencerH]

Beta - i.e. unfinished.

A few minor bugs are acceptable but based upon the large number of bugs and their effects on the game, the initial release was clearly unfinished. Patch 1.2 appears to have fixed most of the bugs and added some improvements :b: but one of the best changes on the tactical map compared with MTW, horse archers, is now in need of a fix and we've been told no more patches. What else will we find in the next few weeks? Will we then be expected to fork over another $40-50 for the expansion in order to get the fixes for RTW but then inherit the bugs from the expansion?

BTW I'm 46 years old, ex soldier, now scientist and have played TW and CIV since they started.

[Daevyll]

I think the main reason people here complain so much about RTW is because it is so very nearly the game we all want.

It is frustrating to see a game come so close, yet failing on just enough points to make you want to cry.


Think of a lost race; if you lose by a mile, you'll get over it a lot quicker than if you lose by a handswidth.

[The Stranger]

yes i think thats the problem. but what is HOI2 from paradox or something like that

[MacBeth]

Hearts of Iron 2

[frogbeastegg]

I think the main reason people here complain so much about RTW is because it is so very nearly the game we all want.

It is frustrating to see a game come so close, yet failing on just enough points to make you want to cry.


Think of a lost race; if you lose by a mile, you'll get over it a lot quicker than if you lose by a handswidth.

Yes, that's it exactly, at least as far as the frog is concerned. So close! 1.2 is so close to what I hoped for with 1.0 it is painful to see it stumble on just a small handful of issues. For example the campaign and battle AI is now much improved, but I find myself facing armies filled with weak units like warbands whereas before I faced swordsmen and other good units. If only the AI still used good units in addition to the new fixes ...

[Paul Peru]

Maybe not as much a beta as an unfinished product.
There are other great unfinished products. Schubert made some. The Corean war gave us M.A.S.H., and it's not finished. Unfinished furniture is very popular in the US these days.
Schubert is currently decomposing, and unable to finish his work.
Unfinished furniture is advertised as such.
Sometimes other people can try to finish unfinished symphonies or furniture.

RTW was marketed as a fully finished product, and also something like "the most moddable game ever" or Rome "moddable" Total War.

It was clear from looking at clues in various files that development was cut short, and from glaring bugs that QA had been ... average.

There have been several hints that CA just ran out of the time and resources that Activision had allowed them, and just had to tie up the loose ends as best they could.

I agree with those who think that 1.2 is "release quality". It is of the quality I had hoped for in 1.0

Other people try to fix what's left.
HA have already been fixed, at least 95%.
Glints and reflections are fixed.
Map extensions are available.
Completed Factions mod is available.
great Historical Battles
new Formations
a plethora of new or reskinned units
tweaks to battle behaviour, animations, killrates etc...
It's really starting to shape up.
(but it's a nuisance trying to keep track of which mods are available and worthwile due to the insane amount of TW fansites and fora)

There are too many hardcoded values that affect moddability, though. Good luck to those who are trying to make a total modification. I mean that.

After 1.2 I've started playing RTW again. I play it way too much, according to my fiancee... It's a great game. It could have been the greatest...

[ToranagaSama]

I'm sorry but why do so many people refer to Rome: Total War as being still in beta? This here really boils my potatoes. The game is definately not a beta. Just because the game didn't live up to your expectations doesn't mean that it's still a beta. There are bugs, yes, but medieval wasn't perfect either. I think all of you complainers want the game to be just like medieval. Well, it's a different game, folks. Don't just make posts here to bash CA. It really ruins things for me when I come to the boards here, and just see post after post about how bad the game is.

I mean, I haven't seen any of the veteran posters start up a thread about something they like about the game. I have yet to see a thread about how fun it is just to watch men swordfight (and even writing this I know someone will counter with "it's hard to watch the sowrdfight when it's over in 5 seconds" or even "well the hastati behaving ahistorically so it takes the fun out")

Almost every single game on the market has bugs. Many games have worse AI than Rome's. In fact, Rome is the only game of its type out now (to my knwoledge) so if you don't like it, don't just make post after post ripping it apart. It's just a game guys, if you don't like it, there's no reason to be bashing CA over it. Nobody forced you to buy the game, so you shouldn't be angry at CA for taking your money for a "broken product." Again, if you don't like it, either mod it or leave it, don't dwell on it to make it worse for others.

You Newbies make me want to throw up!

It really ruins things for me when I come to the boards here, and just see post after post about how bad the game is.

I bet you went to a school without competitive sports, where everybody was a winner....

Guess what?

All you people who are so happy, satisfied and devoid of deep thinking, ruin this forum for me.

So now what?

There are bugs, yes, but medieval wasn't perfect either. I think all of you complainers want the game to be just like medieval.

Wrong. We simply want it to be BETTER than STW/MTW. It ain't!

I mean, I haven't seen any of the veteran posters start up a thread about something they like about the game.

What does that tell you? Maybe there isn't much.

I have yet to see a thread about how fun it is just to watch men swordfight (and even writing this I know someone will counter with "it's hard to watch the sowrdfight when it's over in 5 seconds" or even "well the hastati behaving ahistorically so it takes the fun out")

FIRST, I didn't buy the game to watch the sword fights. Duh!

SECOND, Newbie why don't you do a search of the STW archives, you may have to ask Tosa to upload them. If you can get the Search function to work and the archives are there, you will find a post by me, ToranagaSama, exclaming wonder at the sprite animations, how the sprites parry and retreat, blah, blah...

In your search, you'll also find a BUNCH of other *awe-struck* posts by the now Veterans.

NEWSFLASH: Despite RTW's 3D graphics, STW's sprites have BETTER animations!

Summing up: Why do you expect and demand Veterans to ack like Newbies? We've been there and done that. Do you get the logic here?

Almost every single game on the market has bugs. Many games have worse AI than Rome's. In fact, Rome is the only game of its type out now (to my knwoledge) so if you don't like it, don't just make post after post ripping it apart. It's just a game guys, if you don't like it, there's no reason to be bashing CA over it. Nobody forced you to buy the game, so you shouldn't be angry at CA for taking your money for a "broken product." Again, if you don't like it, either mod it or leave it, don't dwell on it to make it worse for others.

Throwing it right back at ya. If you don't like the so-called bashing, then WHY do you read it?

BTW and JFYI, Rome is not the ONLY game of its type out now. There are TWO others, namely Shogun: Total War and Medieval: Total War. Did you miss those?

Dude, its just a forum, there are other forums aren't there? Nobody is forcing you to read the posts.

FIRST, CA effected the cause for verterans to purchase the game. They did so by raising our expectations and NOT informing us that RTW would have SIGNIFICANT differences than STW and MTW.

It could be argued that CA won our Loyality then Betrayed us....

LASTLY, why are you making it worse for ME??

It goes both ways, if all you folks coming out of the woodworks and who seem so satisfied choose to agree or defer to Veteran opinion and experience THEN CA/Activision might just be compelled to FIX this game. Specifically, everything effecting battle speed(/high tactics).

For the most part you people are satisfied, yet we are not. So, ahhh, whose experience is being ruined?

Unmodifed, the game is unplayable.

---

I mean really, aside from discussing the *Bugs* and work-arounds, what is there to talk about?

We used to talk MOSTLY about TACTICS, but DUH!, there are NO tactics....

Think about it this way, for many of us, myself in particular, the single most important aspect of the game as been....ahhhh.... nullified, taken away, gone, kaput, evaporated!!! (High Tactical Maneuvers)

The second most important part (Stragegic) is plagued by Headless Armies and Purposeless Armies.

The purpose of the Strategy Map is to give MEANING to the Battles. THIS is what is significant and revolutionary about Total War---NOT the 3D Graphics.

So what's the problem? Most of the battles are MEANINGLESS and ANNOYING!!

Soooo, ahhhh, I'm supposed to happy about what exactly? The 3D graphics????

Pleasseeee, gimme back the Sprites and the 2D Map....

---

Originally Posted by Daevyll
I think the main reason people here complain so much about RTW is because it is so very nearly the game we all want.

It is frustrating to see a game come so close, yet failing on just enough points to make you want to cry.


Think of a lost race; if you lose by a mile, you'll get over it a lot quicker than if you lose by a handswidth.

[Colovion]

I think it's really funny, in a sick and twisted way, how when RTW Demo/Release happened that there were so many vets complaining and then most of them left (myself included until the patch was released), then now all the newbs think that for someone to complain about 'their game' is almost heretical in nature... but they don't know how bad the game they're defending is compared to it's predecessors. It's so close, but so far away at the same time.

MTW was amazing but I missed the MP aspect of it because everyone was in the throes of RTW's impending release. I waited to play with many of the respected members who were around at that time on the new RTW engine online... only to find that aspect of the game largely broken and well the massive petition that was put up kind of shows the amount of support for a workable MP feature. In the end, I've only played about a dozen MP battles, which is unfortunate.

[Ar7]

Amen to everything that ToranagaSama said. I have said in another topic but will mention it again, how many topics did you see that discussed strategy, tips, hints, maneuvering, usage of units....NONE! Bacause RTW is just too straight forward, the Battle AI always acts the same with whatever army it is using...line up and charge...challenging, amusing? In MTW the AI was a always a challenge, there were never sure victory.

Sure we have 3D graphics, but they are secondary for a strategy game and MTW and all Paradox games prove it.

We were promised a lot more than we recieved and that is why people complain.

Not to mentioned that the game was shipped as a beta.

*goes off and waits for the EB mod....waits....waits.....*

[Bhruic]

You know, anyone complaining about the word "beta" being used ought to do some research on what "beta testing" is all about.

The whole purpose of beta testing is to identify bugs in your program so they can be fixed. In an ideal world, that would eliminate all of the bugs for the release, but, of course, that isn't going to happen. Still, there is the expectation that all of the readily identifiable bugs will be dealt with.

That was not the case with RTW 1.0 release. There were many obvious and glaring bugs with the program. That left the job of beta testing it up to the people who paid money for the program, which is an unexceptable position to be in.

Now you may make the assertion that all companies do it, or somesuch nonsense, but that is merely an attempt to sidestep the issue. The game as it was released, was not in a sufficient state to deserve release. The paying customers got ripped off.

Now I don't blame CA for that, because I'm sure it was the corporate side of things that made the decision to release. But I'm certainly not going to praise their efforts for something that was as flawed as this was.

Bh

[BobTheTerrible]

Blah, looks like I've thrown a stone into the hornet's nest. Let me just try to clarify what I meant.

I played MTW and it is probably the best game I have ever played.

Rome is clearly not up to par with medieval. I agree with almost everything you vets say about it. The AI is usually mediocre (although after the patch it doesn't seem horrible), men and cav run too fast, and the battles are too fast. In my personal experience, the kill rates aren't insanely fast as you guys imply, but then again I play on huge units. And I do, in fact, get to use actual tactics. I do realize that my style of play is different, so I won't bother arguing that point; there's no way I can prove to you that I do use tactics, just as there's no way that you can prove to me the game is unplayable.

But my point is that Rome is a different game. It wasn't catered towards most of the players who post here. The game is going to remain entirely newbie friendly, whether we like it or not.

You Newbies make me want to throw up!

Thanks.

Unmodifed, the game is unplayable.

See its the comments like these that I don't like. Perhaps its unplayable to you, but I have played the game through unmodified several times. So have the thousands of what you would call 'noobs' over at the .com forums. It's NOT unplayable; can't you see that other people are playing it. But alas, this is an opinion so no use arguing...

All you people who are so happy, satisfied and devoid of deep thinking, ruin this forum for me.

Another compliment, I see. I'm devoid of deep thinking because I enjoy the game?

Wrong. We simply want it to be BETTER than STW/MTW. It ain't!

Exactly. That's my point.

Think about it this way, for many of us, myself in particular, the single most important aspect of the game as been....ahhhh.... nullified, taken away, gone, kaput, evaporated!!! (High Tactical Maneuvers)

Again, that's my point. Why do you stick around and just bash the game?

SECOND, Newbie why don't you do a search of the STW archives, you may have to ask Tosa to upload them. If you can get the Search function to work and the archives are there, you will find a post by me, ToranagaSama, exclaming wonder at the sprite animations, how the sprites parry and retreat, blah, blah...

In your search, you'll also find a BUNCH of other *awe-struck* posts by the now Veterans.

Yeah but those weren't exclaiming wonder at Rome Total war, were they?



I personally didn't encounter any show stopping bugs myself until I stopped by here to hear what you had to say. From the way you put it, it sounded like you thought the game was bargain bin material. Clearly, you still do. I don't. Opinions can't be argued. I'll just stop here, before I lose any further respect from the community. That's just my reason for posting; I thought you guys were being too harsh but clearly you aren't.

BTW, I've been in several beta tests myself. I can tell you that many beta's have more bugs than Rome did at release. I mean, look at star wars galaxies. Over a year from release and it's still buggy as heck.

[Bhruic]

BTW, I've been in several beta tests myself. I can tell you that many beta's have more bugs than Rome did at release. I mean, look at star wars galaxies. Over a year from release and it's still buggy as heck.

And yet you're still using this "defense".

"I bought a car that fell apart in the lot, so you should be happy to have a car with only 3 wheels and no brakes."

Sorry, but that argument holds no water. It doesn't matter whether some betas have had more bugs than RTW. I mean, I could just as easily point to beta tests I've done that have had less bugs than RTW. But that proves nothing.

RTW when it was released had too many fundamental issues to warrant a release at that point. There were too many unaddressed issues. And too many things that should have been spotted during any competent beta test. The fact that they either weren't, or were but weren't dealt with is simply an indication that releasing a beta product on the customers wasn't considered to be a bad thing by the powers-that-be. And that is an entirely sad way to look at things.

Bh

[Jeanne d'arc]

I think the game is brilliant and the 1.2 patch has exceeded my expectations.
Many people in this forum complain and its the nr1 reason why i never came here anymore untill now.Surprised i was when people where still complaining even when in my eyes the patch up was a great improvement compared to the original game.It seems that no matter how good the patch would be those people would still be complaining about even the smallest problems they can possibly find.Its becoming like a sport for some....
Yet still those same people still have there copy of the game so i gues its not that bad after all.

[Yun Dog]

You Newbies make me want to throw up!

Erm! Im a veteran of all three and I like the game - and calling someone a Newbie to try and belittle their opinion is a bit pretentious.

I bet you went to a school without competitive sports, where everybody was a winner....

and he probably secretly hopes for world peace - what a load of "I did it harder in my day" biggoted rubbish

All you people who are so happy, satisfied and devoid of deep thinking, ruin this forum for me.

Ahem! Now people who like the game are devoid of deep thought - that sounds like a very reactionary shallow opinion to me

SECOND, Newbie why don't you do a search of the STW archives, you may have to ask Tosa to upload them. If you can get the Search function to work and the archives are there, you will find a post by me, ToranagaSama, exclaming wonder at the sprite animations, how the sprites parry and retreat, blah, blah...

so what are trying to say - now your a jaded veteran whos probably played the game to death and should probably take a break and get a life

NEWSFLASH: Despite RTW's 3D graphics, STW's sprites have BETTER animations!

Well the obvious answer is go back to STW! PLEASE! at least then you might stop whining

NEWSFLASH this aint STW - get over it

BTW and JFYI, Rome is not the ONLY game of its type out now. There are TWO others, namely Shogun: Total War and Medieval: Total War. Did you miss those?

No in fact I remeber posting a large rant (back when MTW was new) about how they were in essence the same game that had inherrent problems with the AI - ahh the memories

FIRST, CA effected the cause for verterans to purchase the game. They did so by raising our expectations and NOT informing us that RTW would have SIGNIFICANT differences than STW and MTW.

Now its really getting laughable - ludicrous - but amusingly so

It could be argued that CA won our Loyality then Betrayed us....

MWHAHAHA HA HA HA OMG you left out they are also destabilising central american countries and secretly developing WMD - PARANOIA

It goes both ways, if all you folks coming out of the woodworks and who seem so satisfied choose to agree or defer to Veteran opinion and experience THEN CA/Activision might just be compelled to FIX this game. Specifically, everything effecting battle speed(/high tactics).

erm hasnt for the last two titles but hey keep on whining away there - you never know pigs might fly

Unmodifed, the game is unplayable.

now your really showing your stupidity - thats just BS - I dont know what Ive been playing for the past months???

Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

Pleasseeee, gimme back the Sprites and the 2D Map....

as I said you still got STW - enjoy!

your getting like a broken record ToranagaSama

find a new tune

didnt read anything particularly deep in your post either - in fact it sounds like more of the same old whiney over-opinionate drivel to me!

[Stlaind]

One to refer to the game as "beta" really shows a missunderstanding of "beta" and the software industry in general. "Beta" really has many more problems than this game did. Balance issues do not constitute the sort of problems that would keep a game as beta. Typically it deals with making sure a program (in this case a game) is "platform independant" or doesn't crash on as many platforms as are supported, major AI bugs(not weak AI), or that the engine functions as intended. As far as I can tell these problems do not exist with one exception: I have noticed an apparant memeory leak pertaining to archers. I still play with a few freinds of mine and I recomend this game to other stategy players as I can.
-To qualify my statments I'd like to say that I work in QA (so I get paid to find problems in software) and have been involved in sending projects back to coders as "not ready for release" multiple times. I'm also only 20 years old.-

Two not only do all programs past a variation of "print "Hello World" have problems (and even that case may be debateable). OH WELL. It is our job as users to responsibly report problems in as much detail and reason as we can. I have seen many game communities where nobody does ANYTHING but scream and complain about vague problems. While I don't think this is a particularly bad case (there are a not so small number of people who contribute), I also don't think as a community we have done perfectly. I don't have enough time to narrow down my observed problems and report specifics. I don't doubt there are a few others.

Third truly capable modding is extremely difficult until an SDK if released (note : I may have missed this).

I have seen alot of people complaining "the game is too fast" citing STW or MTW. This is unfounded as RTW seems to be a TOTALY different game as far as many factors go, speed being one of those.

Now I don't know what's going on in the MTW/STW world but... If you don't like RTW and prefer STW/MTW start or get involved in a community balance and upkeep project. Don't scream and complain about fundamental pieces of a game if there are games out there that have the features that you want play those and quit complaining about the ones that don't.

[Wh1teWolf]

Listen to the whiney kids calling themselves veterans and everyone else they never saw on these forums noobs, well little nooblets, I started with Civilization yea the original, and also have STW and MTW which this game blows the hell away, MTW is way to repetetive and is easy to get bored with, its the same old thing the entire game, diplomacy sucks, assasination attempts suck, and the AI is way behind the AI of this game.

Read the walkthroughs for each faction in MTW, you can do the same thing every game you play knowing exactly what the AI is going to do, with RTW I have watched the AI switch its tactics and strategies with every new game, so get off your dady's computers and go play some more of your game types like Pack Man or Mario Brothers. Or why dont you cry about it some more so we can laugh at you some more

[Tocca]

Although it can be a bit irritating with lots of threads with complains about this or that, it's much better than no complaints at all.

What would've happened if no one had complained after the release of RTW? If everyone would've just said "Great game"...

We would still be playing version 1.0 and CA would've never considered making a patch.

The ONLY way to ever make the game better (aside from modding, if that's possible in a game) is to complain about the game!

So: If there's something you don't like about the game, COMPLAIN...Please!!

I really enjoy the game after the patch, but there's still things i really would like different.
They say they won't release anymore patches, but i very much doubth they'd ignore it if there was a massive "please fix this" feedback.
Don't think it will happen, most people enjoy the game as is and unfortunately thoose who still want a better game isn't heard enough.

My 2 cents...