War with the Pope

**weegee** · 02-16-2005, 20:48

For some odd reason, The Papal States tries to invade my Venice. Wow they got crushed. It wasn't even close. So I took over the province on a counter, wrecked all the buildings thinking that I would just retreat after next turn. Pope moves to Rome and leaves Papl States totally empty under my control. It's totally undefended for about 2 turns. I was afraid to occupy thinking I might get Ex'd. He continued to leave it open so I moved in and now have occupied it for several turns. I wish I would have known because I wouldn't have razed all the buildings.

So, I'm assuming if Papal States are the aggressor, you can attack without fear of being Ex'd? Also, while you're at war with them, will they still warn you about invading other catholic factions?

He's sitting in Rome with a handful of units. No biggie, so I'll keep him caged. If I were to attack him just to keep him thin from time to time, and then quickly withdraw, do I risk being Ex'd?

**ajaxfetish** · 02-16-2005, 21:18

I have no idea whether Papal aggression protects you from excommunication. It doesn't make too much sense. You'd think if the Pope wanted to take the offensive he'd pull out all the stops, but then it would suck pretty bad to get exed as a result of the Pope's political aspirations. So I really don't know on that one.

You actually probably don't even need to attack every so often to thin him out. With just one province he won't be getting that much income and he has to support any troops he builds, so he can't afford to build up too much of an army. Just keep enough troops around him to contain him (shouldn't take much) and let him be. Much better than finishing him off and then facing the massive army he brings to restore himself to power a few years down the road!

**weegee** · 02-16-2005, 21:41

ah good point. At some stage I'm going to need to start crusading because Turkey is hard pressing Byz, so I'll need the Pope. I'm thinking about back dooring the Byzs and stealing a few provinces while they're busy with Turks. Problem is they have some ships in my lanes and that will instantly cut off of my trade which I cannot afford. What happens if you don't have enough money anyway? Will CPU automatically disband units to get you on budget? I know they'll stop building new units and bridges, but what if your upkeep costs are higher than your income? Also, does it cost anything to retrain troops into newer techs? I'm thinking about modernizing some of the lowly units and hoping that would be cheaper than building from scratch. Otherwise I might start disbanding units.

**Procrustes** · 02-16-2005, 23:21

The Pope goes for Venice a lot. I usually try to knock him out of Rome and into the Papal States - Rome is a better prize if you can get it.

**bretwalda** · 02-17-2005, 12:11

Same thing happened, except that I got excommed when I took the Papal States. I though then since no worse can happen to me I went for Rome to thin the papal armies. Guess what happened: I killed the Pope in battle and puppet pope was installed. Which is strange because sometimes just new pope is elected. Anyway I took Rome, razed to the ground and let the rebels take over. Now the Pope is NOT comming back for circa 10 years... I doubt though that he will stay that way...

However it would be great to know WHEN you will be excommunicated to plan accordingly ;)

**Kommodus** · 02-17-2005, 16:42

Usually, you will be excommunicated if you attack the pope in anyway (as long as, of course, you're playing as a Catholic faction). It doesn't matter whether the pope attacked you first; he'll excommunicate you if you launch an attack against him, even if all you're doing is relieving a siege of your own castle. Thus, if you're playing as a Catholic faction, I'm not sure why you aren't excommunicated already.

However, if any of the Pope's territories turn rebel, you can occupy them without fear of excommunication. (He certainly doesn't remember what's supposed to be his.) It's aggression, not occupation, that aggravates the Pope.

**English assassin** · 02-17-2005, 18:45

What happens if you don't have enough money anyway? Will CPU automatically disband units to get you on budget? I know they'll stop building new units and bridges, but what if your upkeep costs are higher than your income?

You just go into the red. Nothing gets disbanded. Its quite hard to get back out though because you cant build anything to get your income up.

**bretwalda** · 02-17-2005, 20:07

Originally Posted by English assassin

You just go into the red. Nothing gets disbanded. Its quite hard to get back out though because you cant build anything to get your income up.

One way to solve it is to send your mercenaries and overgrown army on pillaging missions. They die thus the strain on your coffers gets smaller and they pillage that can bring in income. This way you can maybe turn the tide especially if the deficit is not too big. If you can restore your trade links by sinking enemy ships - that works too. But only if you are not at war with everyone already.