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  1. #1
    Member Member Legionario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hoplites Outdated?

    You probably misunderstood Goldsworthy,since he is a really good writer/historian;phalanx were surpassed by the times,Romans had to drop it when they encountered the Samnites wich fought in maniple way and on broken ground,much flexible and manouvrable, phalanx was still good only on great plain flat battlegrounds,and supported by a strong cavalry (as Alexander demonstrated)
    that way they could fight by their book,also it depended on wich type of enemy you had in front.....Alexander docet again,with less than good enemies it could still do,otherwise....
    Il dado è tratto....

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hoplites Outdated?

    Personally, as a tactics buff, I love the Roman checkerboard formation. I consider it to be far superior to the Macedonian phalanx.

    For the Romans, it was a matter of finding the middle ground between the all too strict Greek phalanx and the all too unwieldy barbarian horde. The checkerboard has the order and solidity of the civilized armies along with the flexibility and manueverability of the barbarian warbands.
    The Western wind carries with it the scent of triumph...

  3. #3
    Member Member Legionario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hoplites Outdated?

    You said it all..... ;-)
    It was not a case of fortune, they went so far that way....:-)
    Il dado è tratto....

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hoplites Outdated?

    Ah thankyou for your feed back. here is the direct quote anyway: " In the later fifth century BC the peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta and their allies had swept aside many of the conventions of hoplite warfare. By the furth century BC most Greek states were increasingly reliant on small groups of proffessional soldiers or mercenaries, in place of the traditional phalanx raised when needed from all those citizens able to afford hoplite arms."

    I see how i misread this. My apologies to Adrian Goldsworthy.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hoplites Outdated?

    SOmeone mentioned the reformed hoplite equipment developed by Iphicrates.

    It is worth mentioning that the Iphicrates' hoplite used a small shield strapped to the wrist and neck, and a two-hand grip on his 12ft spear. It would seem that the 'Macedonian' phalanx system was actually developed by an Athenian (Iphicrates) and adopted by Macedon, (perhaps through Epaminondas?)

    Does anyone know whether Epaminondas' phalanx was of Iphicrates' type, or more akin to the traditional hoplite?

  6. #6
    Not Just A Name; A Way Of Life Member Sarcasm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hoplites Outdated?

    Iphicratean hoplite was equipped with:

    *Helmet (probably of Thracyan design);
    *Spear with 3.6m (aprox. 12ft) held underhand, but not with both hands (macedonians used a 4.1m (aprox. 13.5ft) at the time of Alexander. The Sucessor States continued to increase it´s length.
    *Smaller shield than that of the traditional hoplite, but still bigger than most macedonian´s and strapped to the neck, but still held in the hand like the traditional one;
    *No greaves;
    *Linen Cuirass;
    *Slightly larger hoplite sword.

    This changes are considered gradual and old equipment was not completely discarded in favour of this kit. It still remained very popular.

    It is almost certain that the Macedonians took ideas from Iphicrates, as he had family relations with Philip.

    EDIT: found a nice pic
    Last edited by Sarcasm; 02-23-2005 at 02:08. Reason: Pic



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  7. #7

    Default Re: Hoplites Outdated?

    Sarcasm,

    Could you try that pic again as a url img link? It did not work as a thumbnail.

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