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Thread: Invitations to Nrdics etc to rule.

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  1. #1
    Member Member lugh's Avatar
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    Default Invitations to Nrdics etc to rule.

    Ok, I just bought a little small history on the Russian geographical era (It kind of takes the USSR borders as the limit of the study, but extended back a few thousand years)
    Anyway it was to my surprise that the Slavic people of one of the khanates invited the Varingian nobility to rule them since they were largely running amok with no central strength from the khan or somesuch.
    Now I knew the Irish had invited a Danish King to take the High Kingship in maybe the first century or so after Norman invasion, and the Normans themselves were descended from up North and the Byz had their Varingian guard.

    My question is this, was this pretty common? Specifically requests for Northern nobility to take positioins of power in other lands? But all the rest aswell.

  2. #2
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Invitations to Nrdics etc to rule.

    The only ones I know of that were asked to go to the position were Varangian guard(which also included a king) but they quickly became ceremonial units.

    Now the Russian thing si different since the Rus already invaded the slavs before that khanate asked to to take care of some business.

  3. #3
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re : Invitations to Nrdics etc to rule.

    None asked a Norse to rule the normans. Normans were norses who settled in Normandy, and the french king officialy offered them this area as long as they would protect it (and beyond that, the area around Paris) from other norses' raids and stop their own raids against his kingdom.

    Varagians guards were not really in position of power. Yes, they were the elite guard of the emperor, and probably had some political influence, but just as all other elite guards (probably not as much as the Preatorian guard in Rome times). Furthermore, the Varagian guard was not composed of varagians only (at least in its later days).

    The fact is that Norses were travelling (mostly raiding and trading) through whole europe, and settled in many various areas. Being disciplined and effective warriors aswell as skilled merchants and travellers, some of them were asked to rule in place of 'crappy' local leaders in Russia and in the british islands.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Invitations to Nrdics etc to rule.

    as the ottoman empire was disintegrating, a lot of the new monarchies that were being formed in the balkans during the 19th century were 'given' german nobility to be their kings.
    indeed

  5. #5

    Default Re: Invitations to Nrdics etc to rule.

    Aye, but I don't remember anyone asking for them... they were imposed upon us by the "great powers", so we could actually fit into the "civilized world" (at the time, being civilized included having a Dansk or Bavarian clown in fancy clothes with a funny hat as head of the state... beats me why)

    Of course, soon enough we threw them all out.
    When the going gets tough, the tough shit their pants

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    Member Member BalkanTourist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Invitations to Nrdics etc to rule.

    First of all, slavs never had khans, the supreme title was "kniaz" which roughly translates as "prince". The Kniaz'es rule could be best compared as a limited monarchy, as opposed to the Khan of the Eastern people who was an absolute monarch. There is an easy explanation for that. Most slavs were "landed" i.e. they lived of the land in permanent settlements. Agriculture was the most important way of making a living. Every family clan owned land and they owed nothing to no one. They were not warlike and would accept the general rule of a supreme power as long as they were left alone to tend their crops. Many settled in the Balkans with the permission of Byzantium and got along with the Empire fine for decades. The Elders of each clan formed the Veche which was the parliament (this is 5th, 6th century and on). The Kniaz presided over the Veche but did pay attention to what the Elders had to say. In war the Kniaz was the supreme ruler and commander. This type of government was called "Military Democracy" (that's a free translation, so don't stress on the name, but should get the idea). Democracy was not very suitable for a country's formation or its protection. In order to survive in the Dark and Middle Ages there had to be a strong hand to rule. And that's where the foreign element comes along. In the creation of Bulgaria it was the Bulgars (nowadays it is widely accepted that they were of alano-sarmatian origin, as opposed to turkic). The Bulgars had a monotheistic religion - one god - Tangra. The slavs worshiped many - Perun, Volos, Lada etc. The Khan was the absolute monarch who enherited his powers through his father with the approval of Tangra. The slavs elected their Kniaz among the Elders. The Bulgars gave that strong foundation for governship without which they would have never survived in the steppes to the north of the Black Sea and without which the newly created state would never have survived among strong neighbors as the Byzantine Empire, the Frankish Empire and the Avar Khaganate. It is the same with the Eastern slavs and the Varangians or the Rus. They brought that statemanship skill and united the loose alliance of the slavs. Eventually they melted in the vast sea of slavs, but not without leaving the Rurik dynasty that ruled Kiev until the Mongols.
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