Traits that are bugged in 1.2 with fixes. Part 1: Scarred, Farmer, Trader

**gregab25** · 02-21-2005, 23:13

Originally Posted by therother

Sorry, trait newbie butting in, but has this been confirmed as a bug in the code, rather than in the traits file? Could there perhaps be another explanation? For instance, have you doubled the "Standard_Battle_Any_Victory_VnV_Trigger" to "Affects GoodCommander 4 Chance 100" to see if your general becomes a Great Commander (Threshold 8) after one battle? I ask as after reading a few threads about the scarred issue, I was surprised to get only the first level (Been in the Wars) after a test battle for something else

Sorry, beyond the obvious Scarred trait bug, i had not heard about a problem with the GoodCommander or RomanHero traits. So I don't know much about them.

Briefly looking at the triggers reveals there is one trigger for GoodCommander and it seems in order.

The RomanHero Trait has 3 seperate triggers 2 with a 20% chance and one with 15% i think. So, it is not surprising that your general would receive this trait quickly.

I did not see any doubling of the triggers left by the omition of the condition Culture Type Non Roman. Which was why you got tested twice in the case of the Scarred trait.

Maybe Jambo has more information.

**Jambo** · 02-21-2005, 23:29

It's particularly noticeable with the combat traits (or rather easier to test). Try a battle with a fresh naive general (no GoodCommander trait). If he wins and the odds make him elligible to receive the 1 Chance 100 in the GoodCommander trait, what you find is that he skips Confident Commander (+1) which has threshold 1, and goes straight to Good Commander (+2) which has threshold 2.

On occasion it's actually possible to get straight to Superior Attacker/Defender (threshold 4) from just one battle. The battle has to be a crushing victory with battle odds of >=0.5 to less than 1.5. According to the character_traits file, this awards GoodAttacker/Defender 2 Chance 100. Due to the doubling bug this gives 4 Chance 100 instead.

This isn't for autoresolved battles, only those fought out on the battle map.

**tai4ji2x** · 02-21-2005, 23:39

ugh... this is SOOOO confusing

i wonder if there will ever be a definitive answer...

anyways, simetrical, i don't understand this:

Originally Posted by simetrical

gregab25 therefore thought that the . Unfortunately, this made every non-farm building increase his traits, tricking him into thinking that his interpretation of EDCT.txt was right.

seems like your sentence got cut off?

**Pode** · 02-21-2005, 23:37

Bugger. I was really hoping double tests for romans would be the explanation for the double awarding "feature". There's no good way to mod around this one. Doubling the threshold prevents the AI from leveling up appropriately, and God knows it needs all the help it can get. Halving the odds for each comabt trigger would be slightly better, since it would tend to keep AI and player generals mired down in mediocrity, but where's the fun in that?

**Jambo** · 02-21-2005, 23:47

double post somehow....

EDit: may as well use this slot.

Pode, there's a cunning strategy that the CVP uses, which helps this unfortunate doubling problem. Basically, it uses the BadCommander traits as a means to combat the meteortic rise that's possible with the GoodCommander trait. Essentially, the higher a general is in the GoodCommander trait, the greater the BadCommander award he'll receive should he lose a battle. For instance, a general at level 4 GoodCommander will have a bigger fall in the trait should he lose a battle than a mediocre commander at level two would get.

**hrvojej** · 02-22-2005, 00:07

Sooo... Do you think that maybe adding "and AdviseBuild >= farms" to BadFarmer trigger would counter the apparent abundancy of this trait while also preserving the actual probabilities?

**Kraxis** · 02-22-2005, 00:09

This is getting highly confusing... I'm lost.

Simetrical what did you do? And what was the effect?
Temple of Ceres grants 3 points out of 6 right? And building another farm adds 1 point? But that is only 4 out of 6 so how come you got the trait?

**tai4ji2x** · 02-22-2005, 00:10

Originally Posted by Jambo

Pode, there's a cunning strategy that the CVP uses, which helps this unfortunate doubling problem. Basically, it uses the BadCommander traits as a means to combat the meteortic rise that's possible with the GoodCommander trait. Essentially, the higher a general is in the GoodCommander trait, the greater the BadCommander award he'll receive should he lose a battle. For instance, a general at level 4 GoodCommander will have a bigger fall in the trait should he lose a battle than a mediocre commander at level two would get.

won't this make the AI's generals worse?

**hrvojej** · 02-22-2005, 00:22

Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

won't this make the AI's generals worse?

I think so too. I rarely (if ever) lose with 4stars or better, since they command my largest, main, armies. The AI, however, is prone to have them wondering alone etc. Unfortunatelly, from what I can gather this is not the best fix for doubling IMHO.

**Jambo** · 02-22-2005, 00:42

Originally Posted by hrvojej

I think so too. I rarely (if ever) lose with 4stars or better, since they command my largest, main, armies. The AI, however, is prone to have them wondering alone etc. Unfortunatelly, from what I can gather this is not the best fix for doubling IMHO.

Have you ever seen a Superior, Great or Legendary AI commander? Personally I haven't in the entire time I've played. Coupled with the fact that they progress more slowly than the human player's generals due to the battle map doubling, the AI generals never live long enough or win consistently enough to reach the higher levels of the combat traits.

Therefore, this is really only relevant for the human player should they slip up in battle with their top commanders.

**hrvojej** · 02-22-2005, 01:14

Originally Posted by Jambo

Have you ever seen a Superior, Great or Legendary AI commander? Personally I haven't in the entire time I've played. Coupled with the fact that they progress more slowly than the human player's generals due to the battle map doubling, the AI generals never live long enough or win consistently enough to reach the higher levels of the combat traits.

Therefore, this is really only relevant for the human player should they slip up in battle with their top commanders.

Well, no, I haven't seen the AI at those levels either, but neither do I "slip" with my generals of that rank. Don't get me wrong, please, I would also like it best if we could get the AI generals to those heights (or at least near the player's general's levels by eliminating doubling), I was just saying that in my opinion this fix unfortunatelly won't help close the gap between the player and the AI.

**hrvojej** · 02-22-2005, 01:32

Originally Posted by gregab25

Easiest way is to see it for yourself. It will take less than 5 minutes. Simply set the thresholds for farming to 1, 2, and 3. Then go into the game and build various buildings and look at the results.

This is what i just did with the default triggers, and I was receiving the traits by building all the non farm and trade buildings first.

I did, and it works as I said.
All thresholds are at 1,2,3, all triggers are at 100%. I build anything other than a farm building, regardless of the relative or absolute farm level, I get +1 in BadFarmer. I build a farm of any tier, I get +1 in GoodFarmer.
For example, I build communal farming, I get grower. I build basic trader after that, and I lose grower. Also, I build a temple (the one after the shrine) in a town with land clearance, and I get poor farmer.

Or am I completely off base as to what we're talking about?