Traits that are bugged in 1.2 with fixes. Part 1: Scarred, Farmer, Trader

[Pode]

Greg, look at the effects of the temple of farming and temple of trade triggers to help you understand why the thresholds are so high. temple of farming gives 6 points of good farmer every 10 turns. I can't check from work, but I suspect temple of trade pays out similarly well. I think the design concept is that a governor's individual ability may help some, but in the long run unless the townspeople see him honoring the gods appropriately, there won't be much change in the output of the town overall. The age of reason is still a LONG way away in game

[gregab25]

Greg, look at the effects of the temple of farming and temple of trade triggers to help you understand why the thresholds are so high. temple of farming gives 6 points of good farmer every 10 turns. I can't check from work, but I suspect temple of trade pays out similarly well. I think the design concept is that a governor's individual ability may help some, but in the long run unless the townspeople see him honoring the gods appropriately, there won't be much change in the output of the town overall. The age of reason is still a LONG way away in game

Yes, I am aware of the effects of the temples, and it may be you are entirely right. Of course this would mean all that factions that cannot build those specific temples would still have a very hard time getting those traits, which may be how it is intended to be. IE. Each faction has stengths and weaknesses in their ability to gain traits based on what temples they can or cannot build.

[Pode]

It certainly makes the Julii pantheon seem a bit less pathetic in comparison to the other Romans. The troops aren't as good, but there can be a WHOLE lot more of them.

[tai4ji2x]

^
again, i think the julii temple (ceres) is a fertility temple, giving fertility bonuses. it is not a farming temple.

[Bob the Insane]

Sinner, you are a saint...

That would work beautifully for my Badfarmer and Badtrader idea...

The following would test when a settlment is upgraded to see if the govern had bothered to upgrade the farms first, if not he is a bad farmer. The fact that this only occurs rarely (up to 4 times in the life of a settlement) ties in well with the low threshold settings in the default trait. If you have left the triggers for GoodFarmer as default it is also pretty easy to recover from getting BadFarmer points simply by building farms. Thus to become an unredemably bad farmer (Loathes_Farmers) your general would have to been the govern during the upgrading of a settlement 3 times without having any farms built...

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Trigger governing5
WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition SettlementBuildingFinished = governors_villa
and not SettlementBuildingExists = farms

Affects BadFarmer 1 Chance 100


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Trigger governing5a
WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition SettlementBuildingFinished = governors_palace
and not SettlementBuildingExists = farms+1

Affects BadFarmer 1 Chance 100

And so on....

Using the same idea with Badtrader is slightly more complex because of the combination of buildings; trade, road and ports. Although, the only action to gain BadTrader points by default is not building trade buildings. So using the same triggers as for BadFarmer but checking for trading buildings not being built/upgraded instead. The slightly higher thresholds in BadTrader mean that to get the worst you would have to govern the growth of at least two settlements without building or upgrading the trade buildings...

The fact that there are three times as many opportunities to gain GoodTrader points is of set by the huge threshold levels...

[Bob the Insane]

Arrgghhh... Double post hell...

[Sinner]

Good idea Bob!

I'd only give BadTrader for the trader line of buildings (trader, market, forum, etc) as it does now, without worrying about ports & roads, the other ways to gain GoodTrader. It'll simplify the trigger and keep closer to the vanilla intention.

EDIT: Perhaps the second trigger should be like this, changing the '=' for the farm condition to a '< =' ...

WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition SettlementBuildingFinished = governors_palace
and not SettlementBuildingExists < = farms+1

Affects BadFarmer 1 Chance 100

That way you'll also get BadFarmer if you haven't built farms or farms instead of the just the latter.

[Bob the Insane]

Good idea Bob!
WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition SettlementBuildingFinished = governors_palace
and not SettlementBuildingExists < = farms+1

Affects BadFarmer 1 Chance 100

That way you'll also get BadFarmer if you haven't built farms or farms instead of the just the latter.

Surely that would make it too hard to get the BadFarmer trait as you would have to never build any farms to get BadFarmer points, and if you built even the lowest level of farms you never have to worry about getting the BadFarmer points...

Using = means that you have to keep upgrading your farms to avoid he BadFarmer traits, nad even if you do gain badfarmer points you can negate them by building the farmer later (which gets you a GoodFarmer point)... You would really have to make an effort to not keep you farms updated to gain the BadFarmer trait...

I guess this is down to personal opinion. Just how bad a farmer do you have to be to get the vice??? (same logic applies to BadTrader)

[Pode]

^
again, i think the julii temple (ceres) is a fertility temple, giving fertility bonuses. it is not a farming temple.

Tai, think about the word cereal for a minute

[Pode]

Correct me if I'm wrong, it happens a lot, but when a dip opens talks with your general, if you counteroffer and they reject that outright, doesn't the full diplomacy menu, including bribe, come up if you try to make a new offer? Is that the situation that smoothtalker was meant for? Defensive bribing of a diplomat that has approached your general?

[Bob the Insane]

Correct me if I'm wrong, it happens a lot, but when a dip opens talks with your general, if you counteroffer and they reject that outright, doesn't the full diplomacy menu, including bribe, come up if you try to make a new offer? Is that the situation that smoothtalker was meant for? Defensive bribing of a diplomat that has approached your general?

Good point, so the trait is having a positive effect as it is, cool...

Do you think it would be reasonable to mod this trait to make it applicable to diplomats as well as family members? Or could make the diplomats overpowered? Considering how much more expensive bribing is in 1.2 I don't think applying this to diplomats would be unbalancing...

[tai4ji2x]

Tai, think about the word cereal for a minute

yes, but in the game it acts as a temple of fertility. look inside EDB.txt

only dacia, carthage, and macedon have farming temples.

[Pode]

Well, at least I did just say that I was wrong a lot, now we have proof. Mea Culpa