Horse Races

**Red Harvest** · 02-20-2005, 20:36

I went off to the races with horses, then came back and checked the descr_model_battle.txt file to confirm.

There are two speeds of horses in RTW: fast and normal.

Fast uses fs_fast_horse skeleton and is on "light horse" and "medium horse"

Normal uses fs_horse skeleton for "heavy horse" and "horse cataphract" and generals horse"

I don't have a copy of the file before 1.2 but I suspect that medium was using the fs_horse skeleton before.

It seems wrong that cataphracts are this fast... Seems like speed should be light, medium, heavy/cataphract.

**Proletariat** · 02-20-2005, 21:08

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

I went off to the races with horses, then came back and checked the descr_model_battle.txt file to confirm.

There are two speeds of horses in RTW: fast and normal.

Fast uses fs_fast_horse skeleton and is on "light horse" and "medium horse"

Normal uses fs_horse skeleton for "heavy horse" and "horse cataphract" and generals horse"

I don't have a copy of the file before 1.2 but I suspect that medium was using the fs_horse skeleton before.

It seems wrong that cataphracts are this fast... Seems like speed should be light, medium, heavy/cataphract.

I knew Greek cav shouldn't be catching my Numidian light cav.

So does this mean Equites are as fast as HAs?

**Red Harvest** · 02-20-2005, 22:11

Originally Posted by Proletariat

I knew Greek cav shouldn't be catching my Numidian light cav.

So does this mean Equites are as fast as HAs?

Yep, even if you switch them back to medium horse.

**hrvojej** · 02-20-2005, 23:54

And if I give horse_medium the fs_horse skeleton? Will that change only their speed, or will it have some other side-effects?

**Red Harvest** · 02-21-2005, 00:20

Originally Posted by hrvojej

And if I give horse_medium the fs_horse skeleton? Will that change only their speed, or will it have some other side-effects?

Don't know, I haven't tried it yet.

If anyone has a copy of the 1.0 or 1.1 version of the file, could you check to see what skeleton the medium_horse uses?

**hrvojej** · 02-21-2005, 03:51

I have changed the medium horse to fs_horse skeleton, and so far no ill effects. Btw, I also changed barbarian chariots to medium horses, otherwise all Briton chariots were fast moving - something I don't quite agree with. Even though it would be ok in a way to have light chariots as fast, I still don't think they should be as fast as the horse archers. I guess it's possible to create new chariot mounts that would cover different versions of Briton and Egyptian chariots (melee and missile), but I prefer to have it this way.

**Kraxis** · 02-21-2005, 17:58

But if medium horses are as fast as light horses... Then your change has had no effect.

I believe (don't have the file at hand right now) that medium horses have a bit more mass than light horses. So the charge and general melee will be more powerful for the Equites.

I'm very sad to hear that heavy and cataphract horses are of equal speed. I find that very much unfair since the cataphract horse has a much better mass (6 compared to 4.5). That could be the reason why cataphracts are so powerful compared to other heavy cavalry.

**hrvojej** · 02-21-2005, 18:24

Originally Posted by Kraxis

But if medium horses are as fast as light horses... Then your change has had no effect.

On the contrary, my change does have an effect.
An example of the test:
Take Seleucids, get militia cavalry, greek cavalry and companions on grassy flatland. Line them up at the side of the map so you have more distance to cover and to prevent enemy peasants from interfering. Select all (but don't group them) and alt-doublerightclick on the other side of the map. Result: greek cavalry (medium horse) is as fast as militia cavalry (light horse), companions (heavy horse) are slower.

Now open the descr_model_battle.txt, and change

Code:

type				horse_medium
skeleton			fs_fast_horse

to

Code:

type				horse_medium
skeleton			fs_horse

Now greek cavalry etc. will move slower than light horsemen, such as the HA, and at the same speed as the heavy horsemen. This effectively makes heavy and medium the same in vanilla, but I also modified the mass so there is some difference between medium and heavy mounts.
Sorry if this is old news for some, it is something I just figured out so I thought I'd share. Thanks, Red Harvest.

**Proletariat** · 02-21-2005, 18:56

Originally Posted by Kraxis

I'm very sad to hear that heavy and cataphract horses are of equal speed.

I really think cavalry units are something it would've been nice if they had not only used three different speeds for the units, but really as many as possible.

**Red Harvest** · 02-21-2005, 20:52

Cataphracts should be quite slow compared to other cav. They couldn't use the same gait with their bulky protection.

This is an unfortunate side effect of skeleton animation approached base to the game. You can only have as many speeds as skeletons it appears. And for most unit types there are two speeds of skeleton. For some there is only one.

Now fatigue does slow units down, sort of a slow motion mode. So there are more speeds, just not enough skeletons in the closet...

**Kraxis** · 02-21-2005, 22:22

hrvojej, hadn't noticed that you changed medium horse to be slower... Now it makes sense.

Red, indeed. They could only trot fast (and not like our trothorse race today, much slower). But fatigue on speed is simply too late in most cases. Because of the tremendous power of the cats they will often have ripped the enemy a new one before they get Tired. And isn't that where they slow down? But even at that don't have the same fatiguelevel as most other heavy cavalry (don't have the file at hand right now)? In that case it is even more unfair.
At the very least the game should have had four speeds. Fast, light/medium, heavy and cat. At least you could mod speed all you liked in MTW.

I guess using the camels is impossible for slowing down the cats? They run at a trot and at speeds I think it almost perfect for cataphracts (which CA did too since the camels and cats of MTW had nearly the same speeds).