Hidden units, ships and officers!!!

[DukeofSerbia]

I noticed that CA make some units, ships and officers (descr_model_battle.txt), but they didn’t put them in game. In some cases this is justifiable and in others not. Let’s start:

Officers:

Bug in the game: Slave Archer Warband have barb_warguard. Blue British chosen swordsman guy with rebels…! Just erase in export_descr_unit.txt officer barb_warguard. I noticed that when I played with Scythia.

East musician and East heavy musician: This is very intersting! CA made those guys for Eastern (Parthia, Armenia, Pontus) but they didn’t put them in game (forgot or something else). In export_descr_unit.txt just put under soldier - officer east_musician (for light infantry, missle units and spearmen) or officer east_heavy_musician (for heavy infantry and spearmen). Guys have intersting music instrument (I don’t know in English – in Latin those men are cornicen and Romans had them (historicly I mean)).

East standard and East heavy standard: Heavy Spearmen (Armenia) have proper officer but everybody else not. Same case like previous. Just put (only for Eastern) in export_descr_unit.txt under soldier officer east_standard (for light infantry, missle units and spearmen) and officer east_heavy_standard (for heavy infantry and spearmen).

Roman centurion: Some units haven’t early centurion (Hastati and Principes). Put in export_descr_unit.txt officer roman_early_centurion and they will have. And some units haven’t centurion (Auxilia, Early Legionary Cohort and Legionary Cohort). Just put officer roman_centurion for them.

Roman standard: Some units haven’t early signifer (Velites and Hastati). Put in export_descr_unit.txt officer roman_early_standard for them. And Praetorian Cohort haven’t signifer. Just put officer roman_standard.

Greek officer: It is absurd situation! You can not add Greek officer to Greek cities units – ok, you can, but this guy is Macedonian (bug in the game)! But with Macedon, Seleucid and Tharacian units work. Just put in export_descr_unit.txt under soldier officer greek_officer for the next units: Levy Pikemen, Phalanx Pikemen, Royal Pikemen, Silver Shield Pikemen and Silver Shield Legionaries. This “Greek” officer is in my opinion the best looking officer in the game.


Greek standard: Some units haven’t signifer. Just put in export_descr_unit.txt under soldier officer greek_officer for the next units: Militia Hoplites, Hoplites, Spartan Hoplites, Levy Pikemen and Phalanx Pikemen.

Barbarian standard: The story is similar – copy/paste officer barb_standard for units who don’t have them.

Carthaginian stanadard: The story is similar – copy/paste officer carthaginian_standard to units who don’t have them. This is for Carthaginian, Numidian and Spanish units.

Egyption standard: The story is similar – copy/paste officer egyptian_standard to units who don’t have them.

Ships:

Deceres and Corvus Quinquiremes: They can be easily built by other Romans. Why only to have them Scipii? That’s unfair! Just open export_descr_buildings.txt and copy/paste recruit "naval deceres" 0 requires factions { roman, } and recruit "naval corvus quinquireme" 0 requires factions { roman, } from temple_of_naval_pantheon requires factions { romans_scipii, } to dockyard requires factions { ct_carthage, eastern, parthia, greek, roman, }. I did that in my game and I erased them from Pantheon of Neptune (Scipii). And Corvus Quinquireme is now recruitable for two turns in my game (three by default is too much – who can wait them). And icon is proper.
Other factions in game can built Deceres and Corvus Quinquiremes (Greeks, Ct_carthage, Eastern and Egyptians), too. But that would be unfair because those ships are original Roman. But you still can put them (there will be no proper icon – just rebel peasant).

Units:

Bug in the game: Spain can recruit Long Shield Cavalry in custom battle and multiplayer but not in campaign. You have to add recruit "carthaginian medium cavalry" 0 requires factions { spain, } in export_descr_buildings.txt and add to cavalry_barracks, hippodrome and circus_maximus. I did that and icon is proper.

Mirmillo Gladiators: Others Roman faction (Julii and Brutii) can easily recruit Mirmillo gladiators. Just copy/paste from Scipii in export_descr_buildings.txt and you must add them in export_descr_unit.txt. Icon is proper.

Samnite Gladiators: Others Roman faction (Brutii and Scipii) can easily recruit Samnite gladiators. Just copy/paste from Julii in export_descr_buildings.txt and you must add them in export_descr_unit.txt. Icon is proper.

Velite Gladiators: Others Roman faction (Julii and Scipii) can easily recruit Velite gladiators. Just copy/paste from Brutii in export_descr_buildings.txt and you must add them in export_descr_unit.txt. Icon proper.

Cataphract: Do you know that Scythia can recruit Cataphract? Yes, they can and they are yellow, but without proper icon (rebel peasant). You must add them in export_descr_unit.txt and copy/paste in export_descr_buildings.txt. Ok, I know that is unreal and I didn’t do that. But if anybody think that Scythia have not enough cavalry…

Cataphract Archers: This is my favour unit. Armenia recruit them, but Parthia can, too, but without proper icon. You must add them in export_descr_unit.txt and copy/paste in export_descr_buildings.txt. I did that in my game. You need little time to accept playing with rebel peasant icon.

Chosen Archer Warband: Those guys are killing machines for Dacia, Germania and Scythia. But, if you play with Britannia you can have them and life will be easier (your neighbours Germans and Gauls have long range archers and why don’t you can), but with peasant rebel icon. You have to add them in export_descr_unit.txt and copy/paste in export_descr_buildings.txt. I’m still thinking to put them or not.

Gothic Cavalry: Best barbarian assult cavalry owned by Germans. Dacia, Thrace and Gaul (because their warlords in multiplayer and custom battle are based on Gothic cavalry model) can recruit them, but without proper icon (rebel peasant). You have to add them in export_descr_unit.txt and copy/paste in export_descr_buildings.txt. I didn’t do that – it’s unhistoric.

Sacred Band Cavalry: Numidia and Spain can recruit them with proper icon (no rebel peasant ). You have to add them in export_descr_unit.txt and copy/paste in export_descr_buildings.txt. I didn’t do that for Spain, but Numidia – still thinking…

Pontic Heavy Cavalry: This unit can be recruited by Armenia and Parthia with rebel peasant icon and wrong name. With extra moding you can have new units (Armenian Heavy Cavalry and Parthian Heavy Cavalry) but without proper icon. I didn’t put that in my game.

Amazon Chariots: I added that unit to Scythia (Balcksmith, Smith and Armourer like other chariots in the game), because Scythian women cavalry units are based on Amazonians. You must add them in export_descr_unit.txt and copy/paste to export_descr_buildings.txt. Icon will be rebel peasant.

Companion Cavalry: Elite Macedon cavalry. Greek cities can recruit them. Yes, this is stupid and I did’t that in my game. Icon is rebel peasant. You must add them in export_descr_unit.txt and copy/paste to export_descr_buildings.txt.

Mercenaries: Every faction in campaign can recruit in their own buildings mercenaries units. I added Merc War Elephants to Numidia (because they used elephants) and Illyrian Merc to Dacia and Thrace (because those tribes were similar). Icons are always proper (no rebel peasant).

[Mikeus Caesar]

Since i can't be bothered doing all that myself, could you just send me a copy of your modified files?

[Byzantine Prince]

WOW, this is a great thread. I never knew all those units were missing. I think someone should pin this.

[The Stranger]

i did put in the wargaurd and the musicians. and i also made those officers availeble for cavalry.

also modded the early roman standards and officers

about the greek officer, the greek one is missing, seleucian and macedonian are the only one availeble

and for the units you're talking about, every country can recruit all units, as long as you type the right things. (most end up with the black peasant icon)

and the amazons are based on scythia's wimen warriors not vica versa

[Kraxis]

and for the units you're talking about, every country can recruit all units, as long as you type the right things. (most end up with the black peasant icon)

Yes they can recruit them, but they will look like the parent faction.
For instance if I gave Macedon and the Seleucids Heavy Peltasts (which I have done) then I get Greek Cities white Heavy Peltasts in my either silver or black armies.
He means that the units you can recruit will have the correct colours in battle.

Anyway, I haven't added every officer to every unit for several reasons. I simply don't consider it to be historic. Hastati does indeed need a centurion (and have gotten it) but a standard? Nah... Same with the Principes, exchanged the standard with a centurion. Levies have no officers, that fits with their easy routs as there is no officer to keep them on their toes.
But I agree with the greek officers. I was surprised and a bit let down that there is no greek officer. But then again the hoplites didn't have differentiated officers so it isn't much of a hit.
In general I have added officers and standards here and there.

[Es Arkajae]

Hmm I would advise against putting in the changes that Dukeofserbia advocates people.

They do something to the game (my game anyway) that causes it to crash at the load up screen.

I gave some extra standards to the barbarian, eastern, egyptian, greek and roman units that lacked them. I also gave some Roman centurian units to the units that lacked them.

I removed the chosen swordsman guy from the slave archer warband.

I gave medium cavalry to the Spanish.

Now something in these changes causes the game to crash as soon as the load up screen with all the trademark crap over it comes up.

I uninstalled the game the first time round when it kept crashing, then reinstalled it and it worked fine.

I implemented the changes again and the same problem struck again.

[Kraxis]

None of the things you have done look wrong to me. I have done every single one of them or made similar changes.

The only thing I can see might be wrong could be if you have not made the correct changes. I have made plenty of those myself, especially when I have done many changes in a row. A , too much or a space too little or a figure removed somewhere WILL cause hte game to crash. Look over your changes again and make certain that everything looks right.

[The Stranger]

Yes they can recruit them, but they will look like the parent faction.
For instance if I gave Macedon and the Seleucids Heavy Peltasts (which I have done) then I get Greek Cities white Heavy Peltasts in my either silver or black armies.
He means that the units you can recruit will have the correct colours in battle.

Anyway, I haven't added every officer to every unit for several reasons. I simply don't consider it to be historic. Hastati does indeed need a centurion (and have gotten it) but a standard? Nah... Same with the Principes, exchanged the standard with a centurion. Levies have no officers, that fits with their easy routs as there is no officer to keep them on their toes.
But I agree with the greek officers. I was surprised and a bit let down that there is no greek officer. But then again the hoplites didn't have differentiated officers so it isn't much of a hit.
In general I have added officers and standards here and there.

i also haven't added officers and standards to every unit, so to heavy infantry and cavalry. some light infantry have standards and missile troops have nothing.

[The Stranger]

Hmm I would advise against putting in the changes that Dukeofserbia advocates people.

They do something to the game (my game anyway) that causes it to crash at the load up screen.

I gave some extra standards to the barbarian, eastern, egyptian, greek and roman units that lacked them. I also gave some Roman centurian units to the units that lacked them.

I removed the chosen swordsman guy from the slave archer warband.

I gave medium cavalry to the Spanish.

Now something in these changes causes the game to crash as soon as the load up screen with all the trademark crap over it comes up.

I uninstalled the game the first time round when it kept crashing, then reinstalled it and it worked fine.

I implemented the changes again and the same problem struck again.

i know the problem, i had the same thing. copy the changes to here and i'll show you what you did wrong.

[The Stranger]

yeah if you do much changes after each other you'll end up making some tiny mistakes and sometimes they are very hard to find. look for the "," and " " in the desc export buildings by the medium cavalry. i think it has gone wrong there.

[DukeofSerbia]

Hastati had centurion. Centurion was in every centuria - even velite have centurion. In modern army seargent = centurion. How unit can be without officer? Soldiers without officer Kraxis? How yes no...
At my home game never crash with these changes. Must be carefull and game cann't crash.

[DukeofSerbia]

Roman soldiers chosed centurion from themselves. And primus pilus had command over cohort. Primus pilus = lietunant. Every soldier had dream to became primus pilus (the highest rank for ordinary soldier). Upper them were young tribunes (nobles). Young tribunes = major. OK now?

[DukeofSerbia]

Primus pilus was the highest rank centurion. Higher officer chosed them (not the ordinary soldiers like centurion).

[The Stranger]

but that's only in the roman army, were talking global now.

[Kraxis]

Everything I have read indicates that the velites did not choose any centurions for a number of reasons. Primarely because they were 'attached' to other centuries and maniples, thus they already had a centurion, but he was left behind when they advanced. But also because the velites were not considered important enough (until Scipio Africanus that is).

And I know very well about the centurion's position, though I would not give him the position of sergeant as their roles are too different. The best we can do it call him a high NCO. Especially given that each maniple had a prior centurion and a posterior centurion.
The primus pilus was not the commander of a cohort, he was the senior centurion of the whole legion, not meaning he was in command of the whole legion. Later on after Marius he was given the honourable position of being in command of the first century of the first cohort, effectively making him the day-to-day commander of the unit, but not the commander of the cohort in battle.

There is another reason why I won't give officers out to all. Each officer is a 2HP man of his unit, and he is free. It doesn't seem as if he actually gives XP and thus if you grant officers to units that are expected to face off with weaker enemies then you give the unit a powerful and free addition to it.

[The Stranger]

huh a two hitpoint soldier, you got to be kidding.

[Kraxis]

huh a two hitpoint soldier, you got to be kidding.

Not at all... The officers are all 2HP. Gotten it directly from the devs.
Don't know how many HP the generals (non-family members) have got, but I suspect 4.

[Ciciocle]

some generals have more. i remember i played a custom battle between greeks and romans. the general of the roman army was knocked down at least ten times before he stood there. too bed i didn't saved that battle. he was surrounded from everywere by phalanx. he just kept falling down and stand up only to fall again. and again, and again...

[The Stranger]

Not at all... The officers are all 2HP. Gotten it directly from the devs.
Don't know how many HP the generals (non-family members) have got, but I suspect 4.

that's not fair, that sucks

[The Stranger]

some generals have more. i remember i played a custom battle between greeks and romans. the general of the roman army was knocked down at least ten times before he stood there. too bed i didn't saved that battle. he was surrounded from everywere by phalanx. he just kept falling down and stand up only to fall again. and again, and again...

that doesn't mean he was hit by a fatal hit, normal soldiers also fall down and then stand up.

[DukeofSerbia]

Primus Pilus commanded over cohort in Empire!!!

[Kraxis]

Primus Pilus commanded over cohort in Empire!!!

As I said he was the day to day commander (I admit it could be taken that I meant the 1st century), much like the Master Sergeant is today. But in battle the varius cohorts would be attached to a tribune, sometimes two cohorts sometimes only one, 6 tribunes equates into 5 with two cohorts and one with one, that one is likely to have been the 1st Cohort. That makes sense as the 1st Cohort was almost two normal cohorts in size.
So the Primus Pilus was not a tactical commander, just like the Pilus Prior was not the tactical commander of his cohort (II-X). Of course realities could be very different like they were in the last few wars (WWII and upwards), where sergeants were often de facto leaders of units because the lieutenants were greenhorns. But that does not make the sergeant the commander of the unit, that was still the lieutenant.
I can't imagine the tribune wouldn't listen to a grizzled old Primus Pilus, or for that matter let the man control the cohort into battle. But the tribune would indeed order the Primus Pilus to do something else if he saw an opening and the Primus Pilus would have to obey.

[General Carnage]

Very good thread. I really didn't know that all of these were missing!

[khelvan]

that's not fair, that sucks

No, this was intended to reflect the behavior of bodyguards (in the general's case) and units attempting to protect their leaders. It is an abstract to show that these people were better protected by the soldiers around them.

[The Stranger]

Very good thread. I really didn't know that all of these were missing!

i did, modded them so they can also fit in horses.

[lars573]

As I said he was the day to day commander (I admit it could be taken that I meant the 1st century), much like the Master Sergeant is today. But in battle the varius cohorts would be attached to a tribune, sometimes two cohorts sometimes only one, 6 tribunes equates into 5 with two cohorts and one with one, that one is likely to have been the 1st Cohort. That makes sense as the 1st Cohort was almost two normal cohorts in size.
So the Primus Pilus was not a tactical commander, just like the Pilus Prior was not the tactical commander of his cohort (II-X). Of course realities could be very different like they were in the last few wars (WWII and upwards), where sergeants were often de facto leaders of units because the lieutenants were greenhorns. But that does not make the sergeant the commander of the unit, that was still the lieutenant.
I can't imagine the tribune wouldn't listen to a grizzled old Primus Pilus, or for that matter let the man control the cohort into battle. But the tribune would indeed order the Primus Pilus to do something else if he saw an opening and the Primus Pilus would have to obey.

Actually kraxis your a bit off. A Centurion was equivalent to what a junior commisioned officer is today like a leftenant or a Captain. Thing is that Romans valued experience not training like today or social rank like in the middle ages and the 16th-19th century when making officers. Now going from top to bottom and comparing to modern ranks

Legatus Legionis (or Legate): Legion commander and about the same as a Major General is today

Tribunus Laticlavius: 1 of the 6 tribunes and was appointed by the emperor or senate (the source I have is talking about an Imperial legion). And was second in command of the Legion behind the Legate. In modern terms a Brigadier General.

Praefectus Castrorum: Camp prefect, a veteran who had come threw the ranks as a Centurion. 3rd in overall command of the Legion, so in modern terms a Colonel.

Tribuni Angusticlavii: The other 5 military tribunes in a legion, drawn from the equestrain class. Administrators and tactical commanders. Modern terms a Leftenant Colonel.

Prime Pilus: The most senior Centurion in the Legion. Although he was a Centurion his position was regarded as being a higher rank. Service in this position earned you a promotion to the equestrian social class upon retirement. Modern terms, Major.

Centurion: Commanders of each Centuria in the field. I would compare them to Captain or Leftenants, as I said above.

Aquilifer: The eagle bearer of the Legion only one of these guys, very pretigious and improtant position. Highest what we would call non-commisioned rank. Next step up was a posting as a Centurion. I'd say Sergeant-Major.

Signifer: The bearer of the Centurial Signum, as well as being responsible for the mens pay and Savings. The Centurial Signum is what the men from each Centuria would rally around. Considering his job and all in a modern terms he would be a Master Sergeant.

Optio: 1 for each Centurion, appointed by him from the ranks to be his second in command. Sergeant plain and simple.

Tesserarius (guard commander): 1 for each Centuria again similar in role to an Optio but lower ranking. This to me makes him a Corporal.

Cornicen (hornblower): Worked hand in hand with the Signifer to draw attention to the Signum. Also help to issue commands. Lance Corporal.

Imaginifer: Carried the image of the Emperor to remind the troops of their loyalty to him. Lance Corporal.

Immunes: Trained specialists like engineers, surgeons, craftemens and the like. Exempt from hard labour and other camp duties. Specialist.

Discens: Milites in training for an Immunes position. PFC

Milites Gregarius: Basic grunt of the Legion. Private.

Tirones: New recruits to the legion, the training process could take 6 months. Recruit.

Man that took longer than i thouth it would to post. Time to get some lunch I'm fu*king starving.

[Kraxis]

You translate the system far too parallel.
The centurions were in charge of dealing with the training, something that you mostly see sergeants do today. They were also the men who had the direct contact with their men, walking and sleeping close to them, something like in extention of the unit. Those characteristics make them more of senior sergeants than of officers, and their relatively confined tactical room would even more make them sub-officers. And their pay ends up making a defining end.

We ourselves didn't have much in terms of ranks until about Peter the Great of Prussia. So I find a direct translation to be impossible.

Most of the ranks had no 'rank' to pull on the normal troops, just a more trusted position, thus making them what I would like to call 'the centurion's pet'.

[The Stranger]

of Russia you mean

[Kraxis]

No... of Prussia. You know the Prussian 7 Year War? Prussia fought off Austria, France and Russia alone. Peter the Great! Quite different from the Russian counterpart.

[DukeofSerbia]

Thank you very much lars573 on explanations. Kraxis don't understand what I want to tell him and now they don't understand you.