Quote Originally Posted by conon394
Red
Have you implemented the revised version of the horse jump fix? It seems to reduce the cavalry penetration of the phalanx somewhat.

On the charge bonus, I tried setting my armored hoplites to 25 (PW charge bonus) and compared to the original stats. I can't really see any difference. What units are you using? I used Armenian Cat. Cav. attacking Greek armored hoplites.
Yes, I've got the horse jump fix for 1.2. I've got a number of adjustments now, and I just did a quick check with +2 PW charge added for hoplite type spears, and +3 for long pikes. (But remember I also have upped mass for the phalanx, and I've given them +6 vs. horse/chariot/camel.) Initial test with a generals bodyguard gave some nice initial kills so initial impressions are favorable. I haven't tested the big cats yet. They have such high armour that they will probably still punch through the pikes rather easily. If one accepts the idea of them successfully charging the pikes, I don't have trouble with the concept of them winning in melee.

Honestly, with the way they have cav set up (with mass effects, and with the rapid penetration) the phalangites need some considerable bonuses specific to cav to have a chance. The heavy cav have very high armour stats.

I agree with tai4ji2x, that the cav need to do some sort of "TQ" (technical quality) check before charging pikes. If the pikes are disordered, then by all means, let them hammer away. Even if the cav unit is heavy and has fresh morale, it should be taking some massive morale penalties and offense penalties for being in front of the pikes. It would be nice to see the cav charges break at times without suffering the massive routing losses. Instead, it would be an intermediate "fallback and regroup" behaviour. They would essentially be out of player control until they regrouped at some distance from the pikes (or anything else that broke their charge, but didn't fully rout them.) Once they hit this safe distance they would attempt to rally. Sort of like a "skirmish mode." This could also allow "regroup and recharge" functionality.

Cavalry charges throughout history were frequently broken, but without utter destruction of the unit. That is more the norm than the exception. It is sort of a given, but they regroup and are able to pursue further commands--unless they are really low morale/green/or undisciplined...or if they are hotly pursued by other cav.