New thread for centralized data access.

**Ignoramus** · 03-02-2005, 00:29

I agree, if we make exact to everything, it would spoil the gameplay. Also, Scotland and Ireland were so similar it seems silly only to have one and not both of them united as one. And so there wasn't a Gaelic Confederation, we can't make everything 100% accurate and I think it is very good idea!

**Ranika** · 03-02-2005, 01:25

By this period, the Irish and Scots were hugely different; the Irish were an amalgam of mostly Gaelic and Nordic culture with Norman influences, and the Scots were a mash of Gaelic, Nordic, Pictish, Norman, Saxon, and Angle influences. They didn't think of themselves as the same people by this time; it's pure fantasy to think such a confederacy would ever occur by this period. The last time the Irish and Scots thought of themselves as remotely similar was when Robert the Bruce sent a letter to the Ui Neill telling him that 'our nation' was in trouble; however, the Ui Neill snubbed him anyway, feeling that 'our nation' was an incredibly rude statement, because the Ui Neill did not feel they were part of the Scots (nor did any of the other Irish). They only accepted aide from the Bruce because of threat of invasion from England.

Irish and Scottish armies were composed of different types of soldiers, they wore different types of clothing, they spoke (and speak) two different languages, etc. The only thing they have in common is a common ancestor. This is like saying the English should be confederated with Germans. Many of them had the same ancient ancestors, so why shouldn't they be a confederation?

**Ignoramus** · 03-02-2005, 01:43

Maybe so, but some Scots did speak Gaelic. Also, this is the only way to get them in. We shouldn't leave out one of the two, so combine them, maybe a little ahistorical, but unavoidable.

**Ranika** · 03-02-2005, 01:50

Why is it not alright to ignore one and not the other? The Scots at least had a country. I'm from Ireland, but, I don't see the appeal of the Irish in this period unless they were an indepedent, single province faction, and there was space for them. The Scots are a plenty workable faction by themselves though, without the need to be propped up by being combined with a foreign country. The Scots were (vaguely) stable, had their own government for the entire country (which still paid lip service to clan chieftans, but they were still under the rule of one), and were condensed enough to be a faction on their own. The Irish were in a state of anarchy with Gaelic and Normano-Gaelic lords trying to make a grab at land and establish a kingdom. In game terms, Ireland would be rebels; they have no major leader, they have no centralized authority, in this period. It's just as well to make the faction Scotland, and allow them to get Irish regional units in Ireland.

Also, Gaelic is colloquialism; there are three main Goidilic languages; Irish, Scottish (which is called Gaelic in English casually), and Manx. They're languages from the same family, but they aren't the same language. I can speak both Irish and Scots Gaelic, but before I learned Scottish, at best, I could feel my way through it due to similar sounding words (and I can do the same thing with my French and Spanish, which I don't speak; still not the same languages but I can feel through it a bit if I take it slow).