Cavalry charge - how it work?

[Svean]

I'm interested how do cavalry charge work. I think it could be bugged...

I'm using cavalry especially on charges REALLY a LOT.
Whne I was plaing Seleucids (vanilla RWT) even my Militia cavalry after using their javs did great charges, and they were smashing all the crappy units whith tactics charge-draw back-charge. I was thinking how gret would be Light Lancers of Macedon with 15 bonus and heavy weapons. So I started new game with Macedon.

And... Light Lancers do great but as Militia Cavalry did. Maybe I was expecting something incredible and maybe there is some change but when I see my Light Lancers charging at the back of enemy sometimes even less men fall down under their hoofs.

And when I saw that missile units primary attack is bugged (works in meele too so Cretan Archers are great assaulters ) maybe that's bugged too... There should be a tool to see what stats are used DURING battles (like it was in MTW).

[Ghostmonkey]

I must be doing something wrong, because I'd charge with my general then withdraw and suddenly half the unit is dead because they got a little stuck! Hell, archers could kill my generals so I've stopped using cavalry except as a mop-up or expendable assault force.

[Bob the Insane]

I must be doing something wrong, because I'd charge with my general then withdraw and suddenly half the unit is dead because they got a little stuck! Hell, archers could kill my generals so I've stopped using cavalry except as a mop-up or expendable assault force.

I think what is happening here is dependant on how successful your first charge was...

If you charge your cavalry in and they get stopped and bogged down and then you try to pull them out I think the enemy get free attacks to your cavalry's backs as they turn away and these attacks with ignore of the cavalry unit's shield and defensive skills values thus you suddenly get a load of casualties...

Want you want to do is keep the cavalry moving. Ideally your initial charge did not stop but actually blew straight through the enemy unit breaking it up. If cavalry does get bogged down the best bet is to leave them there, if possible, until you can charge in another unit to support them...

[Wishazu]

i would never reccomend leaving cavalry bogged down in combat unless they are Cataphracts. if you dont route or smash through the enemy unit quickly, then bugout, regroup and hit em again.

[Simetrical]

If you're getting more damaging charges with Militia Cavalry than with Light Lancers, something is seriously wrong. Possibilities I can see:

1) You're on a higher difficulty than before.

2) You're attacking tougher units.

3) You're playing with a different version of the game (i.e., a different mod) than before.

4) You're playing with the same mod, but that mod's creator was doing hard drugs when deciding unit stats.

If none of the above is correct, then I haven't the foggiest clue what's wrong.

i would never reccomend leaving cavalry bogged down in combat unless they are Cataphracts.

Don't you think it's a bit extreme to get worried about, say, a general unit getting caught amongst zero-experience Hastati or something?

-Simetrical

[BeeSting]

It’s best to attack with multiple cavalry units to a target. A charge effect, followed by another charge effect to a target, serves to be pretty deadly. I rarely charge into anything with a single mounted unit. If this won’t crack the enemy, I would then throw in my skirmishers for melee. And I have yet to see a flank that won’t cave in to this combination. So I keep the skirmisher on the flanks screening my mounts, and ready to support them if needed.

[Marshal Murat]

I always charge en masse.
I take maybe three equites, and charge hard, and charge close.
Bang they hit and reel.
However, my use of catapracts are faulted or something, because I can charge two at a enemy foot, and then hit, and when I turn them to charge away, they rout.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I almost exclusively use cavalry to charge enemy cavalry at all times and infantry that is either unable to be stopped by my infantry and thus must be held back from flanking and overwhelming my line of battle or as the hammer onto the enemy after they hit my anvil (infantry wall).
Cataphracts should be kept in melee combat, Companions are better suited for the multi charge tactic and the charge and retreat.

[Quillan]

If you're trying to get the cav unit out of combat, I've found it's usually better to move straight through. Turning around usually seems to result in horrific casualties. Just give them the order to run to the far side of the unit instead.

[hung41584]

its alll about timing, don't pull them out too fast or too slow. Like if you leave them fighting for a while, then pull out, the units have a few seconds to use their meager defenses and it cuts down on the casualties rather than pulling out right away and not having a chance to defend themselves. Plus, a couple of them would keep the enemy busy while the rest ran away so you wouldn't have the enemy attacking your whole unit of defenseless cavalry but just a couple of them.

its still better to mix and match charges with infantry or other cavalry though cause the charge bonuses seem to stack.

[Svean]

I think I was playing hard/hard with Selecuids and vh/vh with macedonians so - probably that's the problem ;) But even then I think that light lancers charge should be more impressive...

And about the charges - I found that 3 units are working best against single one While one is charging others is widtrawigng from meele and the third is turning and preparing for charge. With such timing sufferer has no time to reorganize formation an 4 charges (2 with first unit and 1 with others) are enough to route almost any unit even with militia or greek cavalry or equites. Then you can change target. Of course works only with small armies when you don't have to so micromanagme (or on one flank in large battles).

[Svean]

Now I'm plaing RTW Total Realism mod. With "realism" espacially "total" it is not so common but it's still VERY GOOD mod - one of the greatest I've ever played on any game. In this mod cavalry is harder to get (buildung cost and time and cost of units) but they ROCKS (mostly with their realtively good attack).
Of course lots of units have modified stats and lof inf is MUCH better especially with better defence (and lowered attack). It makes battles last longer and makes cavalry crushig unit as it was. And ranged units aren't that good - you can't kill almost any army just with your cretan archers.
This is more chalenging (and more balanced) game!! And now you can work on your combined arms tactics!!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I usually use high quality cavalry so for me a charge from two units is usually enough to rout the enemy. Especially with the enemy already engaged!

[Kaldhore]

Sometimes its better to charge "through" the enemy unit and out the other side (by clicking to run in that direction immediately after the initial charge). This has better results for me and far less casualties when they try to withdraw.

[The Stranger]

I'm interested how do cavalry charge work. I think it could be bugged...

I'm using cavalry especially on charges REALLY a LOT.
Whne I was plaing Seleucids (vanilla RWT) even my Militia cavalry after using their javs did great charges, and they were smashing all the crappy units whith tactics charge-draw back-charge. I was thinking how gret would be Light Lancers of Macedon with 15 bonus and heavy weapons. So I started new game with Macedon.

And... Light Lancers do great but as Militia Cavalry did. Maybe I was expecting something incredible and maybe there is some change but when I see my Light Lancers charging at the back of enemy sometimes even less men fall down under their hoofs.

And when I saw that missile units primary attack is bugged (works in meele too so Cretan Archers are great assaulters ) maybe that's bugged too... There should be a tool to see what stats are used DURING battles (like it was in MTW).

the archer bug is fixed, for the stats go to rome-totalwar/data and then export desc unit. and there it is, displayed for your use no silly equipment needed to find it out. they just typed you a walktrough. aren't they nice

[Ghostmonkey]

Thanks guys, Once I am able to take the initiative once more I'll try the multiple cavalry to a target thing and see if that works for me.