Chariot archers - historical evidence?

[Bromley]

Are chariot archers in our period historically accurate? I can see no mention of them in Caesar's account of the Briton chariots that he bumped into.

Likewise, my (very) limited understanding of the Ptolomaic/Seleucid situation is that they only had heavy scythed shock chariots.

I think that's everyone who was using chariots at the time. Are there any accounts of archers? For that matter, are there any accounts of melee chariots that weren't the heavy scythed type (i.e. did people melee from chariot, or did they tend to dismount).

[The_Emperor]

The Britons didn't use chariot archers (they mainly used slings and Javelins instead of bows) so instead hurled javelins from chariots and used them to disrupt formations. They would also jump off the chariots into the melee and then remount quickly... Caesar mentions this gave them the mobility of cavalry with the staying power of infantry.

The Egyptian chariots are pure fiction taken from the old Kingdom sterotype image of Egypt, and the Selucids didn't use heavy Scythed chariots very often. (only to suppress a rebellion IIRC)

I am not too sure about what Pontus used, but my general understanding was that chariot warfare was outdated in this period, with the Britons using it because of the weakness of local horses to create good cavalry.

[Kraxis]

Chariots in general were not used much, except in Brittannia.
The Successors dabbled a bit with scythed chariots, but they never proved to be worth much and was soon abandoned from real fighting.
But it is understandable that CA made a fictional faction as another pike faction would be too much. And the chariots are fun to use, that we have to admit.

[hellenes]

CA has chosen clearly the cindergarden path and added their small stone to the diminishing of the masses education and intelligence...
The abomination of the "egyptian" faction is:

1. An insult to the customers intelligence
2. Overpowered and dump looking

The only remedy is
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43859

Hellenes

[The Stranger]

definitly, CA didn't do much research i think, and i'll say it again the only reason RTW has gone gold is because of MTW's legacy

[Bromley]

1. An insult to the customers intelligence

But not, probably, to their target audience .

I'm looking forward to EB too, even if it can't fix everything.

[The Stranger]

when does RTR 5.2 comes out.

[Kraxis]

definitly, CA didn't do much research i think, and i'll say it again the only reason RTW has gone gold is because of MTW's legacy

I wouldn't say that... They have several times said that they know very well that Egypt was much like the Seleucids but that the marketing considered that redundant. It was sort of 'who wants to play three non-roman faction that are the same?' And I have to agree. Chariots are fun... And the general public sees them as that too. By selling out on the Ptolomies they possibly gained a whole new younger public.

[RollingWave]

Chariot archers were used... just probably not in that particular period...
In China they used 4 horse Chariots that would have 3-4 men on the chariots with usually 2 as bowmen 1 driver and 1 wielding a polearm....

However that sort of warfare also dimished (interestingly around the same time period as the mid east )as calvary became obviously more all rounded with less weakness

[soda]

By the time of the Romans (even earlier), man had realized that warriors directly on horseback were superior to chariots. They had already cultivated horses that could bear the burden of the weight of a man (idea/method spread from Central Asia). The chariots are really ancient. The Egpytians used them but that was back in the days of the Old Kingdom. I can't remember the name of the battle but there was one enormous battle (for the time) between the Egyptians and I believe the Hittites. That was the largest chariot battle ever (several thousand years ago).

[BeeSting]

CA has chosen clearly the cindergarden path and added their small stone to the diminishing of the masses education and intelligence...
The abomination of the "egyptian" faction is:

1. An insult to the customers intelligence
2. Overpowered and dump looking

The only remedy is
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=43859

Hellenes

[BeeSting]

I wouldn't say that... They have several times said that they know very well that Egypt was much like the Seleucids but that the marketing considered that redundant. It was sort of 'who wants to play three non-roman faction that are the same?' And I have to agree. Chariots are fun... And the general public sees them as that too. By selling out on the Ptolomies they possibly gained a whole new younger public.

Agreed.... but to sell it to the younger and less sophisticated public, they only have to change the look of things, yet not to the point of pissing on history altogether. I don’t like the way CA is headed.

[Kraxis]

The chariots are really ancient. The Egpytians used them but that was back in the days of the Old Kingdom. I can't remember the name of the battle but there was one enormous battle (for the time) between the Egyptians and I believe the Hittites. That was the largest chariot battle ever (several thousand years ago).

Egypt got the chariots from the Hyksos, a people from the north (middle eastern perhaps, but perhaps even indo-european) who conquered most of Egypt for about 100 years. That was called the Second Intermediary Period. After it came the New Kingdom (the Old Kingdom was the one dating back to almost 4000BC) it ranged from about 1600BC until 600BC.

The battle of Kadesh (Qadesh if you like) was indeed the largest chariot battle we know of, but it also the first battle that we can reconstruct with any certainty. It happened in about 1285BC. It wasn't that big really, but it was a serious struggle.