Danish Campaign

[CherryDanish]

Also mercenaries play a larger part in danish armies than most other factions I use, when the Mongols turned up and threatened my large possessions in the steppes I hired hundreds of English Byzantine and Italian mercenaries which added what was needed to my Danish armies which frankly dont stand a chance against the Horde.

Definately mercenaries are good for adding variety to the Danish army such as adding decent missle troops, missle cav, heavy cav, decent light cav (notice a trend here), and adding decent light troops for desert warefare.

The Danes excel at putting heavy AP units in the line, but it's hard to trap a mobile army if you're on offense. That said, the most success I have ever had with any units against the horde have been the Huscarles and the VGs (OK, VGs are not viking, but are similar to the huscarles and historically based on viking mercenaries). On defense, park huscarles in a wooded treeline and wait for the mongols to charge. If you can manouver another unit to flank the devastation is complete and total. The horde doesn't possess a single unit that can fight effectively in a large wooded area, thier strength lies in the open plains. I've easily built 4-6 valour per huscarle unit in a single fight against the horde during some of my campaigns. My favourite tactic is when the horde withdraws troops I move single units of huscarles into different woods along the withdraw vector the horde uses. Withdrawing horde units get turned into ground beef when they enter the woods I control. The horde will always send in their top general or king into the meat grinder and once he's dead, combined with the horrible one sided casualties they suffer, they route as soon as you look at them funny.

[weegee]

I'm about to take on the Horde myself. It's going to be interesting how it all plays out. Let me paint the picture:

It's 1220. I (Danes) am at war with Byz, Hungary, and English. The latter have a very strong presence in western France. We are faced off at Saxony/Brandenbrug (me) and Franconia (them). They've tried a couple of times to seize the lands mentioned, but were bloodily repulsed. I tried to take Franconia this last turn, and although putting up a very good fight (outnumbered 3500 to 900, they sent in lots of reinforcements after I hit end turn), my men tired out and I had to withdraw. So, we will probably have a rematch on the next turn.

None of the 3 wish to accept ceasefires, as I'm trying to keep my list of enemies down in anticipation of the Horde.

I am squared off against Byz at Khazar (they own) and I own the 5 surrounding provinces from Kiev to Volga-Bulgaria. Basically, if the Horde appear in Khazar, I'm sure the Byz will withdraw to Crimea or Georgia, thus leaving me to take the full force of invasion. Unless I can make a very quick alliance when they first appear. I'm stacking troops best I can in the 5 provinces, but most of my high tech units are going to fight the English, so mostly Fuedal MAA and Sarges are manning the borders. I'm just starting to move over some Chiv MAA & Sarges and Arbs, heavy steppe Cav, etc. But this will be minimal because I have to spread over 5 borders.

Here are my choices, the way I see it. Let me know if there are others:

1) If Byz stay and fight at Khazar (highly unlikely), either make alliance with Horde or hope that Byz can weaken the first brunt of attack enough for me to compete. It will depend on which way Horde turns to expand, north towards me or south towards Byz and Turks.

2) Scorch Earth Volga, Ryazan, and Pereya and concentrate in Kiev, Chernigov, and Muscovy. Basically cutting border defense from 5 to 3. This will allow me to shorten resupply lines and provide a good foot hold to counter attack from. If I put up enough of a good defensive line, Horde might shift focus to middle east and leave me alone.

3) Leave it on the line, pump out as many units as I can over the next 10 turns, dig in, and fight it out. I like this idea!

[_Aetius_]

Ive been in the same situation as you weegee I used a scorched earth policy in the surrounding provinces of were the horde arrive Khazar, and sometimes Volga Bulgaria left mercenaries behind to slow them down and cause some casualties and especially Kiev were bridge battles are common, I held the horde back 3 year sin a row in Kiev because of the bridge.

The horde will not accept alliances or ceasefires early on they will attack you before you have a chance to offer alliance, retreat peacefully or they will simply take the land from you by force, retreat to the more eaisly defendale northern steppes and dig in there in force. Try and get some provinces you own to rebel and then retreat form them itll slow the horde down and just wait for the horde to inevitably lose its momentum then strike them down, they are prone to civil war.

[CherryDanish]

I am squared off against Byz at Khazar (they own) and I own the 5 surrounding provinces from Kiev to Volga-Bulgaria. Basically, if the Horde appear in Khazar, I'm sure the Byz will withdraw to Crimea or Georgia, thus leaving me to take the full force of invasion. Unless I can make a very quick alliance when they first appear. I'm stacking troops best I can in the 5 provinces, but most of my high tech units are going to fight the English, so mostly Fuedal MAA and Sarges are manning the borders. I'm just starting to move over some Chiv MAA & Sarges and Arbs, heavy steppe Cav, etc. But this will be minimal because I have to spread over 5 borders.

Here are my choices, the way I see it. Let me know if there are others:

1) If Byz stay and fight at Khazar (highly unlikely), either make alliance with Horde or hope that Byz can weaken the first brunt of attack enough for me to compete. It will depend on which way Horde turns to expand, north towards me or south towards Byz and Turks.

2) Scorch Earth Volga, Ryazan, and Pereya and concentrate in Kiev, Chernigov, and Muscovy. Basically cutting border defense from 5 to 3. This will allow me to shorten resupply lines and provide a good foot hold to counter attack from. If I put up enough of a good defensive line, Horde might shift focus to middle east and leave me alone.

3) Leave it on the line, pump out as many units as I can over the next 10 turns, dig in, and fight it out. I like this idea!

Listen, hate to be the voice of doom and all, but you are looking down the barrel of a long and potentially dangerous fight.
a) the more troops you stack along the borders of khazar, the more horde you will eventually face. There are two ways of digesting this. First you drop your troop levels there, putting in your best smaller units, this will paint you as a target to your neighbors who will attack and you'll likely earn even more enemies. Second, you load up the provinces with every single crap unit you can find so that when the horde invades the Byz held khazar they will do so in numbers so excessive anyone who engages them is looking at a 5-6 hour fight. If this is the case, hopefully your numbers and some quick action with an emissary will persuade the horde to unload on the Byz. This can easily backfire depending on how many provinces the GH invades on their appearance.
b) you are in a squeeze, because your enemy is holding a single country and you are holding an entire front. Easier for them to pick and choose a target, harder for you to defend.
c) Anyone invading Khazar will likely be attacking over a bridge. While I personally love both attacking and defending a bridge, many find these battles too bloody and costly. If you invade after the horde appears, you're going to be attacking a superior enemy accross a bottleneck. Good luck.
d) The horde is not necessarly limited to appearing only in khazar, so you or the byz might end up in a gunfight anyway.
e) unless the horde comes out fighting they will likely play a passive role and since they can't make more troops, it's better to maintain long cold wars.

If I were in your shoes, I'd likely move as quickly through modern day turkey as I could via khazar and georgia, leaving as few garrison troops as possible in all other countries and station a huge garrison somewhere in amphibious assault range. It's a risky plan as you will lose territory if the byz make any ships to block you when the GH appears.

[bretwalda]

I suggest: raze the steppes and get a defensive stand in Kiev or anywhere behind a river. It is not only good because you lose less troops but also it is easier to play a long battle if it is a bridge battle because you can speed up time while you butcher the enemy. It needs less attention which is good if you have to play a 3 hour battle.

Raze the steppes, because you can get it rebel, and the Horde cannot build new troops until it builds up but - and by that time it will be out of money.

[CherryDanish]

Raze the steppes, because you can get it rebel, and the Horde cannot build new troops until it builds up but - and by that time it will be out of money.

The horde never builds troops regardless of what is built in any province and has an insane amount of starting cash. That said razing is good from the standpoint that you make some of the cash back before the horde takes it.

[BAD]

I have seen them build troops. but they still tend to stick to troops what they would normally have or choose to pick. IE horse Archers types, light and medium Cavalry and foot archers.

[bretwalda]

The horde never builds troops regardless of what is built in any province and has an insane amount of starting cash. That said razing is good from the standpoint that you make some of the cash back before the horde takes it.

The Horde builds troops just like everyone else as long as there are facilities and has not run out of money. I see this when I let AI to "handle" the GH. In this case the Horde carves out a big kingdom and I see them coming with all kinds of troops.

If you start in early it is easy to bankrupt the horde: make sure they arrive in empty provinces, beat them and ransom troops for thousands and soon they will be bankrupt and soon dead.

[_Aetius_]

The horde most certainly train troops, ive seen them even retrain Mongol Heavy Cavalry and Mongol Warriors, thankfully though the horde usually becomes intergrated into the local tribes, instead of training Mongol type troops they usually train local steppe cavalry, slavs, steppe heavy cavalry and woodsmen, they start playing a larger part in Mongol armies and there armies end up a cross of mongols, steppe tribes and polish/russian.

[Age]

When playing in a campaign when do you start getting into the battle as I have been pushing the year end button not enough funds?Thanks.

[Zarax]

It depends on what and how much you built, plus if you've conquered enough land to support your army.

[weegee]

Just to keep you guys updated to the state of my world in 1246. Wow! What an incredible half dozen turns or so.

I decided to play it super aggressive and maintained my long border, except that I gave up Pereyaslavl because income was minimal and it required diversion of some much needed troops. Horde came in and pushed Byz out of Khazar. I had two - three stacks of troops on each of Volga, Ryazan, Chernigov, Kiev, Lithuania, and Volhynia.

Horde came after Kiev with about 6 stacks. I put up a good fight and then ended up being seiged. They tried breaking in twice, and succeeded on the second, with great cost. They then stormed into Volyhynia, which I gave up without a fight in order to reset defenses along the border.

So now, on the surface, things are looking bad for me. I'm in a back and forth fight with the English for Franconia. They harass me from time to time in Genoa and Denmark. Even the Papacy tries to backdoor me from Tuscany into Genoa. And to rub salt in the wound, Spain starts sinking my ships. Yikes

I took about 15 minutes to look at the map and realized that slowly but surely I was going to start losing my armies by playing this back and forth game. Problem is that no one else was at war with each other, but pretty much everyone was at war with me. IOW, I was making no money and had gone into red, meanwhile the others could continue to pump out units. So, it was either a massive campaign to try and shorten some of the border lines and cause havoc, or pull back and concentrate.

I went with the first option. In one turn, I struck 1) Poland from Pomerania and Prussia (2 stacks vs 1.5 stacks for them), 2) Volhynia (Horde) from Lithuania (3 stacks vs 3 stacks), 3) Khazar from Volga and Ryazan (3 stacks vs 2), and 4) Pereyaslavl (Rebel) from Chernigov (3 stacks vs. .5 stack).

1) Poland withdrew without a fight to their castle. Pussies!!!
2) Horde withdrew completely to Kiev
3) Huge fight with the Horde on a bridge. Loses were about even, miraculously, 950 me, 850 them, but my troops kept routing. I had more success using swords against thier cavalry, then spears, believe it or not. Maybe the better attack rating. I finally broke through after about 1.5 hours. Then they retreated to castle. Believe it or not, they guarded both bridges.
4) Crushed rebels and set up a good base.

So, on the next turn I consolidated the gains and played out the seiges. Poland tried to sally and send in reinforcements. I got the warning from the Papacy, but good thing is that I killed Polish king in battle and his other 2 provinces turned rebel. Good news here is that I cut border from 2 zones to 1, and eliminated a long time enemy.

Horde from Kiev tried to come to aide of Khazar. Wow, what a battle. This time bridge battle for me. Surprisingly again, the casualties were very even, about 1200 them and 950 me, except their King was killed. So guess what. Rebel factions pop up in their 2 or 3 remaining provinces and no more Horde.

The best news is that England tried one last attempt to take Franconia and were soundly beaten. 1200 casulaties to about 250. I've killed about 3 or 4 English kings over 6 years in the fight for this land. Well, this last one must have brought on much discouragement, because about 4 or 5 of the English 10 provinces turned into Rebel lands.

England, Papacy, and Byz sent either ceasefire or alliance emissaries right away. So, in summary, 2 enemies are now withered to rebels. 1 enemy has been seriously weakened. My income has been improved by rich lands of Khazar and Poland. I will take Kiev in the next turn or two to further shrink my border lines. And then I can focus on Spain and kill them

Problem is going to be making money and getting out of red. The heavy hitters are me about 20% of map, Spain 20%, Hungary 15%, English 10%, Byz 10%, Italy and Sicily 10%, and the rest rebel. Very good and balanced game so far.

[BAD]

Hehe good idea going for the offensive way out (reduces your pay slips ^^). And anyway that makes your borders smaller is a good option. Just be wary because if the Polish and/or Mongols had any heirs that were below 16 years of age when you slaughtered their ruler they may re-emerge when they get to 16. And they will re-emerge with alot of troops. Just one thing to keep in mind .

PS - Yas slaughter the Spanish . . . oh how I dislike them. -_-

[CherryDanish]

I have seen them build troops. but they still tend to stick to troops what they would normally have or choose to pick. IE horse Archers types, light and medium Cavalry and foot archers.

Wow, I have NEVER seen the GH build troops, even when they desperately needed them. I vaguely recall someone saying the same thing on these boards. Then again I always raze provinces before I surrender them (a lesson I learned from history) and I'm always ready for the horde. If I'm wrong about the GH not building troops, I appologise.

[_Aetius_]

What state is your military in Weegee?

Sound strategy you chose BTW seems to have worked a treat, my only concern with that kind of tactic is that often, campaigning armies suffer massive disorganisation when fighting long drawn out campaigns.

I mean everybody hates armies that have about 75% unit capacity because of annoying little battles that reduce units and force them to require retraining which because of economic and facility problems isnt always available.

Ive suffered to many times from this I gain great victories and success against my enemies, leaving my army disorganised, no fault of my own just war tends to kill people so then the next arch rival comes along and starts pushing me out of my recent and usually sacked conquests because my army hasnt recovered enough to withstand them.

Most annoying

[weegee]

What state is your military in Weegee?

Sound strategy you chose BTW seems to have worked a treat, my only concern with that kind of tactic is that often, campaigning armies suffer massive disorganisation when fighting long drawn out campaigns.


Most annoying

Aetius,

I'll be first to admit that I did not expect the Polish and GH to turn into rebel factions because of their king's death. It was a wonderful surprise as I suspect the rebels will leave me alone long enough to get my finances in order. They will also provide a nice buffer to the Hungarians who are coming on strong in central europe. The English I kind of suspected they were on the brink of some rebel uprisings based on some loyalty reports from their various provinces, and as I mentioned, the fact that I had killed about 4 kings in 6 years, plus handed them 3 or 4 severe losses. Still, it looks like the dice rolled my way that turn.

I'll break my army into two parts, western and eastern:

The western group is a much more advanced group because of access to higher tech buildings in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. I'd say the mix is about 35% spears (mostly Chiv), 25% swords (mostly chiv and Gallowglasses), 20% missiles (mostly arbs and some vanilla archers), 10% cav (mostly mounted sergeants and RKs), and 10% misc (mostly Huscarles). I'd say about 9 (appx. 10k men) total stacks covering Norway to Poland.

The eastern group is based more on fuedal troops, however I had access to heavy Steppe cav, arbs, and was just getting chiv level troops in Lithuania just as I was starting to run out of money. So it is a very hodge podge group, a little bit less techie. Pretty much same mix as above, except a higher percentage of cav and misc. troops, mostly Huscarles. I'd say about 10 stacks (appx. 11k men) covering Volyhynia to Khazar.

In addition, I probably have about 20 or so units of vikings acting on garrison duty behind the front. Most of these are needed however to keep highly volatile provinces (i.e. Livonia and Lith) happy. I also have an isolated colony in Genoa, which has two full stacks of mostly fuedal sarges and maa, and several units of genoese sailors.

I'm fortunate to have good generals. Most provinces have a 5-7 star command leader in it. Added with some valor bonuses from several engagements, and the army is very formidable. My decision to go on this massive offensive came when I got the "You have the largest military" notice. I figured I was at my peak since I could not afford to build anymore, while the other would have time to catch up. So it was a case of move now or slowly be chipped away at.

The key for me right now is to consolidate all the troop movements. I will probably take Kiev from the rebels because that will cut 3 provinces from my border defense. After that I will sit and wait until I can have peace with the Spanish. The good news is that we have no connecting borders, just common ship lanes. The bad news is that it seems they have a crusade headed for Serbia that will pass through Genoa. Considering it has 99% zeal, I cannot afford to lose any troops since they will not be able to be replaced. Therefore I will refuse passage, if they come my way, and of course that will spark some more bad blood with the Spanish. The excommunication might hurt me as well with loyalty, etc.

The next five years for me will be very trying. If I can clear spanish ships from the English seas, at least I can start trade again with the English. That should eliminate my annual defecit. But, without Mediterranean trading, I'll never get out of the red. I need peace with Spain in order for that to happen since they have a strong presence on the western side. I have a few longboats left over in the region, so I will try to get those to Khazar.

I was at war with the English for about 40 years. At least 25 battles were fought mostly in Franconia, Saxony, and Brandenburg, with a few in Denmark. Good thing they self destructed before I did.

[Togakure]

In past Danish campaigns, I'd played it very quietly and carefully, taking Sweden, then Norway, developing fleets and trade, and then just waiting for opportunities to present themselves for expansion, through bribery or assaults on rebellious provinces or excommunicated factions. Effective, but not particularly exciting, and the campaigns tended to be very long and drawn out.

In my current Expert difficulty Danish campaign, I took a different opening approach, one that was probably more in line with how the developers intended the Danes to be played: quick militaristic expansion capitalizing on the Dane's speciality unit, the Viking.

My first goal was to take Saxony and establish control of a "star" pattern of provinces around it: Pomerania, Brandenburg, Franconia, and Friesland (Denmark obviously already under my control). As soon as my first heir matured and I had 6 or so viking units, I attacked each of these provinces in turn, from east to west. I'd move on to the next as soon as I had enough vikings to garrison each one effectively to prevent rebellion. As I took these provinces, I alternated between first improving farmland (in the ones with a high yield) and building forts (to increase the rate at which I could produce vikings). Soon my very tight cash flow was much more comfortable, and I had a decent military force (yet not too expensive to maintain). The Germans didn't even put up a fight until I got to Friesland, and though outnumbered 2-1, my viking army crushed them. My "star" pattern complete, I withdrew the bulk of my army to Saxony, leaving small garrisons in the outlying provinces, and proceeded to work on my political affiliations and trade network. I also took Sweden and Norway quite easily after this. By 1120 or so I had a very nice starter empire, easily defensible, with a nice income. This was a much better position than my previous campaigns where I "played it safe" and just focused on Sweden and Norway first.

As I expected, somebody assumed that, because I had small armies in my outlying provinces, I was weak. The Polish, coveting Brandenburg and Pomerania, attacked both and were repelled easily. As is usually my policy, I immediately retaliated in force, sacking Poland and withdrawing (not wanting to overextend myself so early), and taking and keeping Silesia (outside of my star pattern, but still defensible given my now steady cash flow and army size). The pope got on my case right quick as I expected, so I left it at that. I'd crippled them badly.

After sacking the Polish capital, I realized that this was a way to keep my vikings effective longer and maintain a nice treasury--hamstring my enemy's ability to produce better units by regular raiding and destroying their infrastructure--with no intention of keeping the territory. Not only was this fun, it seemed in keeping with "viking nature." Just had to be careful not to piss off his popeliness.

The French soon pushed the Germans back, occupying Lorraine and Swabia, threatening my holdings in Franconia and Friesland. Then they did what always pisses me off to the max--they built a crusade, in Lorraine. I could just see them sucking off on my now large viking/royal armies, so rather than just let them, I attacked, smashing into Swabia and Lorraine simultaneously. The French, apparently very surprised at my sheer audacity, abandoned both (the large army in Swabia cut off by my attack of Lorraine, and thus lost in its entirety). I razed both provinces to the ground, destroying the Chapterhouse in Lorraine, and thus, the annoying crusade as well. The French were by far the strongest at that point, so I decided it wasn't enough to stop there, as they'd rebuild quickly and come after me with a vengeance. So I continued on, razing Champagne, and finally, sacking Paris. Once the most technologically advanced faction, the French empire was now crippled, and the English (my ally and their mortal enemy) had taken Flanders. I withdrew my raider army back to Saxony and Franconia, and left a garrison in Lorraine in order to develop it strictly as an agricultural buffer zone between my empire and the remains of the French.

Amazingly, even though the French were allied with the pope, I wasn't warned to cease and desist. I did lose my alliance with the Pope, but was allowed to continue my assault against them. The Byzantines were pushing up successfully against the Hungarians, and had advanced all the way to Venice, bordering papal lands, so perhaps that distracted his holiness ... who knows.

As it stands now, the Germans were eliminated and have reemerged in strength with good units, holding Swabia, Burgundy, Tyrolia, and Switzerland. The French are weak and willy nilly in Brittany, Anjou, Aquitaine, and Aragon. The British hold the isles excepting Ireland, Flanders and Normandy. The Sicilians and Italians have been eliminated, with the Papal States occupying the entire Italian peninsula (the Sicilians rememerged, but their huge armies are stuck, isolated on Malta). The Byzantines have pushed the Hungarians into Bavaria and Bohemia, while themselves beings pushed up into Hungary and Austria by the Egyptians.

Given this situation, I will avoid the East for now and focus my next extended offensive against the English. They have four barques in the water however, and though my longboats outnumber them, they are stretched to Spain facilitating trade, so I'll need to beef up my Navy first. I'll likely employ a 1-2 punch, hitting the fleet one turn, and then following up with a simultaneous over sea attack against Northumbria, Mercia, and Wessex the following year (all lightly garrisoned as most English forces are in Flanders, the choke point). My troops in Friesland can launch a diversionary attack on Flanders which should guarantee success in Wessex.

I anticipate that Scotland will revolt after my attack and will be easy to bribe (there are only a couple of units there anyway). This approach will allow me to pincer the remaining British forces between my invasion force and my main force on the mainland. As I now have Huscarles, Mounted Sergeants, and Feudal Sergeants to complement my Vikings, Archers and Royal Kniggits it should be easy to clobber the English and their Kniggits, Hobilars, Spearmen, Urban Militia, and Archers. Just have to cross my fingers and hope that my naval attack is successful. I'll also look for a way to get the British to break their alliance with me first, so as not to lose Influence.

[Ash]

Excommunications have no relation with an alliance with the Pope.

I've been excommunicated plenty of times when I myself was allied with the Pope.

[Togakure]

Yes me too, but I was surprised because the Pope was allied with the French, and I was pounding them turn after turn. When I first attacked, the Pope broke off his alliance with me and maintained his alliance with the French (who were very strong and whose king had a higher influence rating at the time). But he never gave me a warning to cease and desist within two years, etc. I thought for sure he'd nip my offensive in the bud after my initial attack because he was buddy buddy with the Frenchies.

[Zarax]

The pope sends cease/desist only if you're bigger than the power you are attacking or if it has already given another warning for a previous attack.

[bretwalda]

Yes me too, but I was surprised because the Pope was allied with the French, and I was pounding them turn after turn. When I first attacked, the Pope broke off his alliance with me and maintained his alliance with the French (who were very strong and whose king had a higher influence rating at the time). But he never gave me a warning to cease and desist within two years, etc. I thought for sure he'd nip my offensive in the bud after my initial attack because he was buddy buddy with the Frenchies.

Isn't this because you already got your warning against the Polish? The Pope/the AI/the game cannot keep track more than one warning of excommunication...

[Togakure]

Oh really? Lol ... didn't know that. I'm a Shogun fanatic who plays MTW as a change of pace, so unlike with Shogun, I haven't discovered the little details of MTW yet. Now that I'm beginning to read in here and post a bit, I'm sure I learn a lot from y'all. Thanks for cluing me in. That little tidbit will definitely affect my campaign decisions.