Two small oddities...

**Kraxis** · 02-26-2005, 04:50

Playing my Seleucid game dutifully I took Pergamum from the Greeks. I was no longer in financial trouble so I opted for an enslavement of the city. I could need the slaves.
When I looke around at my cities I was surprised. I had no governor in Sidon, yet it got a slavebonus, Halicarnassus had a governor, but it recieved no bonus. This was not not consistent, but it seemed like somebody had given out the bonus 50/50 to the cities. Very odd.
I tried to take screenshots of it but the shots were all black.

Now I can easily have mistaken a lot of things, but I thought only governed cities got slaves...

The other small oddity was also in Asia Minor.
I had a rebel army standing round in the junction between Mazaka, Ancyra, Sidon and Tarsus (it had popped up short after a massive defeat I had suffered). It was commanded by a family member, so I was in for a nasty fight (I have lost at least five of my own family members to rebels in this game), so I brought all the scythian mercs I could (yep you hire them near Mazaka after the merc file has been corrected).
As I sat there and shot the rebels to pieces I had the cursor hover over the rebel general... It stunned me.

It said "Pontic Heavy Cavalry"!
WHAT!?! But they are not listed as either rebels nor as candidates for family members. They even seemed to have two hitpoint as it took the concentrated effort of three units of scyths to wittle them down from 81 (I have modded the game to run an intermediary between Large and Huge) to about 20. When the first unit failed to cause much losses I got scared. 81 2HP Pontic Heavies... Nasty image of yet another family member that bites the dust bravely fighting off rebels. Especially considering I had 37 bodyguards of the rather low quality Greek type.

So have any of you encountered such cases?
You can be sur that I will pay more attention to rebel family members now.

**Red Harvest** · 02-26-2005, 05:30

I think that if you (or the AI) take the last remaining region of a faction, any remaining family member led armies turn rebel. I'm not sure why I think this. I believe I saw a nearby family member do this once when I took their last city before he could arrive...but maybe it was just a dream. I am not sure what happens to other non-family member armies. Had Pontus been eliminated previous to this?

**Proletariat** · 02-26-2005, 05:38

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

I believe I saw a nearby family member do this once when I took their last city before he could arrive...but maybe it was just a dream.

This definately happens, I've seen it quite a few times even before the patch.

**hrvojej** · 02-26-2005, 05:42

Enslavement: I think the governed cities get the bonus immediately after the enslavement - the listed population is distributed among your governed cities wherever they (the cities) are. However, after the enslavement, you get the "slave" resource on stratmap for 20 turns which is then traded as any other resource. This slave resource causes a 0.5% growth in cities to which it's being exported, including the city where the enslavement has been made (think grain resource). Does this explain your observations?

Eastern rebel generals have an extraordinary high armour (9 vs 6 of the regular early eastern generals). I am playing Pontus right now, and they still show up as pontic heavy cavalry for some reason (they are actually tougher than pontic heavies too).

And speaking of Pontus, their phalanges have a shield value that is too high, and their upgraded generals have no shield while they should, in case anyone's interested.

**tai4ji2x** · 02-26-2005, 06:01

Originally Posted by hrvojej

And speaking of Pontus, their phalanges have a shield value that is too high, and their upgraded generals have no shield while they should, in case anyone's interested.

i really need to stay away from the forums. the more i find out the more frustrated i get.

**hrvojej** · 02-26-2005, 06:08

Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

i really need to stay away from the forums. the more i find out the more frustrated i get.

But why? One of the important things why I come here lately is to read and implement any fixes that people might post. True, there are some things that are really crappy, like the siege-lifting bug (which is why I keep RTW alt-tabbed and running in the background all the time lately

), but OTOH with that and after a week of fixes/tweaks, I'm having the best campaign yet. And this is largely because of all the things I found on the forums.
C'mon, cheer up.

**Red Harvest** · 02-26-2005, 06:28

Yeah, I noticed that about the shield value...again...I thought I had fixed it but it is back like it was.

**Proletariat** · 02-26-2005, 06:54

Originally Posted by hrvojej

But why? One of the important things why I come here lately is to read and implement any fixes that people might post. True, there are some things that are really crappy, like the siege-lifting bug (which is why I keep RTW alt-tabbed and running in the background all the time lately

), but OTOH with that and after a week of fixes/tweaks, I'm having the best campaign yet. And this is largely because of all the things I found on the forums.
C'mon, cheer up.

I like your positivity, but it's gonna take me a little while to come around at this point. I'm starting to feel like it's a bit overwhelming trying to track down all these fixes and implement them properly.

I'm pretty frustrated right now, but I'll prolly get over it in a few days and come back and see what you guys have come up with. But I'm starting to really hope CA just decides to be totally carefree and rebellious and just come on out with a quickfix/patch.

Stupid Activision.

**Kraxis** · 02-26-2005, 13:43

The enslavement is explained... That was pretty much as I thought it was, but I had just not noticed that before.

But the Pontic Heavies were 81 strong, meaning they were a full size, not the normal 37 ones (remember that I have the intermediary size), the family member did not yet have any triats so there was no reason for him to have a larger unit. Also what prompted the eruption of rebels was my devastating defeat in an attempt to take the last pontic city.
Normally they are called Eastern General from what I have noticed, at the very least I have faced what clearly were rebel generals, and that was their name.

Btw, Pontic phalanx pikemen are undersized too. 40 compared to 60 of normal pikemen.

**The Stranger** · 02-26-2005, 16:05

Originally Posted by Kraxis

Playing my Seleucid game dutifully I took Pergamum from the Greeks. I was no longer in financial trouble so I opted for an enslavement of the city. I could need the slaves.
When I looke around at my cities I was surprised. I had no governor in Sidon, yet it got a slavebonus, Halicarnassus had a governor, but it recieved no bonus. This was not not consistent, but it seemed like somebody had given out the bonus 50/50 to the cities. Very odd.
I tried to take screenshots of it but the shots were all black.

Now I can easily have mistaken a lot of things, but I thought only governed cities got slaves...

The other small oddity was also in Asia Minor.
I had a rebel army standing round in the junction between Mazaka, Ancyra, Sidon and Tarsus (it had popped up short after a massive defeat I had suffered). It was commanded by a family member, so I was in for a nasty fight (I have lost at least five of my own family members to rebels in this game), so I brought all the scythian mercs I could (yep you hire them near Mazaka after the merc file has been corrected).
As I sat there and shot the rebels to pieces I had the cursor hover over the rebel general... It stunned me.

It said "Pontic Heavy Cavalry"!
WHAT!?! But they are not listed as either rebels nor as candidates for family members. They even seemed to have two hitpoint as it took the concentrated effort of three units of scyths to wittle them down from 81 (I have modded the game to run an intermediary between Large and Huge) to about 20. When the first unit failed to cause much losses I got scared. 81 2HP Pontic Heavies... Nasty image of yet another family member that bites the dust bravely fighting off rebels. Especially considering I had 37 bodyguards of the rather low quality Greek type.

So have any of you encountered such cases?
You can be sur that I will pay more attention to rebel family members now.

well i thought eastern rebel generals are heavy pontic cav (they don't have a face just the unit, and come with 12 on normal)

**The Stranger** · 02-26-2005, 16:07

Originally Posted by Kraxis

The enslavement is explained... That was pretty much as I thought it was, but I had just not noticed that before.

But the Pontic Heavies were 81 strong, meaning they were a full size, not the normal 37 ones (remember that I have the intermediary size), the family member did not yet have any triats so there was no reason for him to have a larger unit. Also what prompted the eruption of rebels was my devastating defeat in an attempt to take the last pontic city.
Normally they are called Eastern General from what I have noticed, at the very least I have faced what clearly were rebel generals, and that was their name.

Btw, Pontic phalanx pikemen are undersized too. 40 compared to 60 of normal pikemen.

i noticed that, also bronze shields and armenian legionares are at least heavy infantry but have the morale of light infantry (4 instead on 8, without already modding the game)

**Kraxis** · 02-26-2005, 20:51

Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1

well i thought eastern rebel generals are heavy pontic cav (they don't have a face just the unit, and come with 12 on normal)

Oh this guy had a face... If I had had a diplomat nearby I think I would have tried to bribe him, I really needed another family member.

**The Stranger** · 02-26-2005, 20:59

than i think he was the Rebel faction heir/leader (yes they have and i know that from conquering the whole world with rebels, but you can't unload boats so no islands)
or it's because you modded all cavalry to 20 (just like i did, but no generals i hope) and missed these one as a general cavalry (rebel generals are hugely overpowered)

**Kraxis** · 02-26-2005, 21:38

Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1

than i think he was the Rebel faction heir/leader (yes they have and i know that from conquering the whole world with rebels, but you can't unload boats so no islands)
or it's because you modded all cavalry to 20 (just like i did, but no generals i hope) and missed these one as a general cavalry (rebel generals are hugely overpowered)

Don't know if he was the rebel heir or leader, but his traits didn't indicate it (had a spy nearby). And I haven't modded the cavalry size, only overall size.