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  1. #1
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to most effectively use some units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraxis
    I use the Scythed chariots for cavalry hunting, especially generals. But I don't mind sending them into a nasty melee. I never send a single unit of chariots into enemy infantry. That is a sure way to get them killed fast, you need to send in at the very least two units and have them hitting the same point, often enemy infantry will break from that. And then the road is open for the cavalry. Just never try to use them in a city... A single phalanx can kill hundreds of them (even Militia hops and Levies).
    I have modded all chariots but the generals to be prone to running amok.

    I think part of the scythed chariots weakness might be because they don't get the proper armourbonus? In the files they are shown to have 18 points of armour, in the game itself they have 0 and a def value of 1. I have for some time wondered what that means... The 4 HP and the large unit footprint can explain why they can take so much archery, but as soon as the unit shrinks a little they fall like flies (of course a lot of the HP must haev been depleted by then). I have got a feeling the armour is not counted as it should. Especially since other chariots seem to get their bonus.
    the hitpoints shown on the unit scroll of chariots are the horses hitpoints, so the men have 1 or 2 hitpoints (dunno) and the horses 4

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  2. #2
    For TosaInu and the Org Senior Member The_Emperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to most effectively use some units?

    Eastern Infantry... Those guys make me laugh every time I play.

    Once I even beat them with a unit of PEASANTS!!
    "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."

  3. #3
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to most effectively use some units?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Emperor
    Eastern Infantry... Those guys make me laugh every time I play.

    Once I even beat them with a unit of PEASANTS!!
    Not that hard really. Just place your Peasants in the town square and await the tired EI. They will be routed by the Peasants.

    Emperor Umeu 1, I was talking about the armour. If the armour isn't applied correctly it won't impact the game. So if the armour is only for the man or the horses and it isn't shown ingame, then it seems as if it isn't applied.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  4. #4
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to most effectively use some units?

    oh oke, but the armour was also for the horses i thought cause the men have a armour value of 18 and defence value of 1

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member Oaty's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to most effectively use some units?

    Best way to control phalanxes is not to control them. Basically tell them to march straight forward until they hit the enemy. If you target a unit with them they sometimes seem to turn too much causing their pikes to be lifted too often. Of course remember to halt them if the enemy get's too intermingled with them. And when you have a whole line of phalanxes march them together and when 1 unit hits an enemy halt them all, this way your phalanx line only has 2 flanks exposed.
    When a fox kills your chickens, do you kill the pigs for seeing what happened? No you go out and hunt the fox.
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  6. #6
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to most effectively use some units?

    I tend to treat a line of phalanxes as something like a wall of spear-point. If I'm attacking I tend to simply march them reasonable close to the enemy in normal formation, lower the pikes, and snail-pace the remaining distance. Seems to work well enough, at least when I keep a few infantry units behind the line to plug the gaps, pursuit, and take care of any flanks created when a phalanx routs its foe and I turn it to the side to help its neighbor mince up the unit it is fighting against.

    And cavalry on the flanks. Always have cavalry hanging around the ends of the pike line. Actually, even if you think you won't be needing mobility, take cavalry along *anyway*. If nothing else they chase routers a lot better.

    In cities I tend to advance the phalanxes by simply keeping the pikes lowered and click-and-dragging them to a suitable spot. Normally works well enough on straight streets, but corners can be problematic. Still, even if the front ranks find themselves fighting the foes with their weeny lil' daggers that's not such a big deal once their mates in the back ranks lower their pikes, or the next phalanx marches in with lowered pikes. Several phalanxes piled atop one another seems to be very very nasty.

    As for the scythed chariots, I mostly use them for bandit-hunting or as low-maintenance and easily-retrained stand-ins for proper heavy cavalry, naturally with every sodding armour and weapon improvement I can get (rule of thumb: if you have access to a smith-type temple line, have at least a few training centers furnished with those). I tend to treat them as cheap and cheerful terror units that go in just before the main force impacts to mess up the other guys' formation. They keep cavalry off the flanks of your pikemen just fine, too.

    As a side note, I've always been a bit puzzled by the chariot stats in the game. They have separate statistics for the chariot and the crew (e.g. SC drivers are basically Cataphracts with the appropriately macho armour rating of 18, but the defense stats of their chariots total about 1 which is also the number you see in the in-game info scrolls). I've always assumed the chariot is the one which gets hurt in melee, while the crew is the one who gets hit by missiles (SCs seems to be fairly arrow-proof). The chariots' main defense in melee seems to be the way they project a sort of "kill field" around themselves, at least as long as they move, inside which everything gets bonked by the attack ratings of the chariot itself and usually knocked down. Beats me how any melee attacks the crew may have get factored in, or just how exactly the game computes if an when a chariot sustains a hit. It always seems pretty random to me.

    And I never could figure out if the way the Pontic Chariot crews had a melee defense skill (others don't) actually affected anything.
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  7. #7
    Provost Senior Member Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to most effectively use some units?

    Watchman, I think we went to the same ludus. I employ pikes in the very same way. Line 'em up and march 'em forward while delaying the pike drop until the last moment. A few peltasts immediately behind them are nice too.

    As for the scythed chariots, I mostly use them for bandit-hunting or as low-maintenance and easily-retrained stand-ins for proper heavy cavalry, naturally with every sodding armour and weapon improvement I can get (rule of thumb: if you have access to a smith-type temple line, have at least a few training centers furnished with those). I tend to treat them as cheap and cheerful terror units that go in just before the main force impacts to mess up the other guys' formation. They keep cavalry off the flanks of your pikemen just fine, too.
    I use chariots like this too. They even enjoy the advantage of having only a small impact upon population growth.
    Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.

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