The hoplite issue...

[Ano2]

As an amateur military historian the nature of the hoplite has me confused. If I am correct the Southern Greek hoplites used short spears overhand and large shields as their primary fighting stance. They would make shield walls and stab over their shields ( Like in the film Troy).

Macedonians used the sassara (sp) type of fighting stance which was a lng pike held by 2 hands, with a shield strapped to one hand.

Am I corrct in both these assumptions? Did either Greek state change their fighting stance over time? Any feedback would be greatly appreiciated.

[jerby]

for all I know, only spartans stabbed overhead, corintians, athenians etc all stabbed underhand. macedonia indeed had a small strapped on shield and a long ( very long ) spear.

[conon394]

The Macedonian style (i.e. Long pikes, little strap on shields…) was not introduced till sometime in the reign of Philip II (mid 4th century), it’s not really clear when he mad the reform.

[Sarcasm]

People don´t seem to realize the span of time in which cultures used hoplite/phalanx tactics. These tactics probably appeared in the 8th century BC and were used up until 1st Century AD! Thats´s like 900 years!

So inevitably it evolved. The classical hoplites fought with a short overhand spear behind a large shield and used bronze armour (if they could afford it). Eventually the shape of the helmet changed, and so did the armour, being mostly made of linen, the linothorax, by the 5th Century. There is some discussion about further evolution of the equipment, and some authors state that Iphicrates (4th Century) , reformed the hoplites by increasing the size of the spear and and decreased that of the shield, but it is common assumption that these were gradual and far from complete reforms. Others disagree altogether...conon384 for example ...and say that reforms could only have been made on peltasts (light javelinmen) . I argue that because hoplites replaced the Argive shield with a a smaller one, the pelta, they were consequently called peltastai instead of hoplitai, even if they retained the same role, heavy infantry, but with different equipment.

As for the Macedonian phalanx, there are strong evidences that Philip of Macedonia (Alexander´s father), took ideas from Iphikrates who was his adoptive brother. They used similar equipment, only Philip´s was a more radical transformation (even longer spear, and smaller shield).

I´ll shut up now.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

Phillip might have not change the shield. The shield the Macedonian hoplites used was introduced between 413 and 400 by the reforms of Archelaos. This sheild was 60-75cm and Phillips seems to have changed the shield grip, so that the palm of the shield-arm was at the edge of the rim. This means that the sarissa could be hold with two hands.

Something like this. Perhaps the shield was a little smaller than that.

[Sarcasm]

We are told in sources that Macedonians used smaller shields attached to their arms, so they must have done so. Part of the great cost reduction of the Macedonian infantry arm, to be able to field a semi-professional army, was changing the shield (among other things).

But if this way of holding a shield of that size can be achieved, then it could be another way of looking at Iphikratean hoplitai.....