Faction difficulty rating

[RollingWave]

From ur experience and observation of the usual AI conclusion etc... on the scale of 1 - 10 (1 being very easy 10 being super hard) how would u rate the different factions (exlcuding senate and rebel)

Obviously for really skilled gamers all of them are not super hard, but realtively speaking there shoudl still be a good comparason.

I'll start...
Brutis: 2 (obvious easiest Roman faction, weak enemy, rich province, most likely to get all the wonders)

Scipiies: 4 (Hard start, but gets rich pretty fast... but if u end up losing Sciliy early which is definately possible ur screwed.)

Jullies: 3 (medium difficult enemy, should not have a lot of problem in the long run, but also won't get very rich too quickly)

Gaul: 7 (many enemies and seperated land, although army make up is good for rush and reliable in most cases. early success and the balance of several front is abosalutely crucial)

Germans:6 (kinda like the Gaul but with weaker early enemies and a slightly better overall army)

Brits:6 (much like german, the down side is they probably have to face the Romans when they are already very strong, the upside is their start is easy)

Spanish:7 (difficult and weak start with less rush potential due to crappier infantry, and likely encounter with strong romans, but once u secure the Iberian ur position is good)

Carthage:5 (should usually win on Sciliy, Numidia should usually only be a pest unless u make big mistake, might not hold all front but as long as u hold on to sciliy and Carthage ur long run potential is insane too.) army is acceptable early and good late except for the lack of foot archer.

Greek: 9 (I think one of the most difficult faction, 5 isolated cities and 3 major fronts, with a army that is quiet vanilla and will either need to require a lot of mercenary or a very unflexible strategy. the only good news is that u are very if u survive a while.

Macedon : 6(in best position to win the balkans, has a much better army than the greeks, once taken over the city states will become filithy rich, only difficulty is that the plauge will hit u fast and the romans will keep comming. while u can't get to them that early like the Gauls.)

Selucids: 7 ( much like the greeks they start with several isolated province and many fronts with strong enemies, like the greeks they are flithy rich and will only get richer, but their army is much better and almsot unarguablly the best overall in the game, if they can get pass the early stage they will steam roll at an insane pace)

Pontus: 6 (starts small time but in the best position to secure the very rich Asia minor, army is good for all stages with a lot of flexibility. in position to take Rhodes quickly, as long as they can keep the Selucids and Armenians pointing their swords at each other they will be easy)

Pathia: 6 (starts poor and far away but with the best early army type (horse archer) as long as they can grab babylon and a few other rich province they will be strong, however their army will remain very crap at seiging large stone cities. but should be extermely diffiuclt to beat on the field)

Egypt: 2 (easiest non Roman.. solid army, very easy starting position with the weak numidians and the troubled Selucids, grab the middle east and then head of asia minor should not be much trouble, very rich with a very good late game army too)

Armenian: 7 (start with good army type but in troubled position. it would be almsot impossible to go into Scythian land for a while while Pathia is about the same as you early on and Pontus can only be reached through narrow mountain passes. with all 4 sides having enemies and no easy to reach target in sight, Armenians are in a rought position though they are within reach of Asia minor and the middle east, giving them good potential in the long run.)

Dacia: 8 in the middle of all the barbarian tribes... all ur enemy are hard to reach and not very worth while, have no special unit, by the time you finally get some decent secured position you will face very strong Macedon or Roman or German.

Scythia: 7 start is good and bad... the good is that you can field horse archers anywhere the bad is that you are in the middle of no where, if you are playing a Imperial game it's a loooooong way to Rome.

Thrace: 7 starting position is difficult and you are also small time, the only good news is that you can reach Byzantium the fastest, the bad news is that this will get u into a fight with Macedon, and if u win that the Romans rolling over the dead Macedonians will only be stronger. ur cross breed army is decent but also don't have much late game steam.

Numidia: 6 u have the advantage against carthage early on as most of their stuff is on Sciliy, sacking Carthage fast and you will be in a secure positon to go whereever you want, ur postion should be quiet wealthy no matter where u go. the main problem is that ur army is limited later on and u'll have to tackle some pretty well build up Romans.


These are of course just my casul observation from either my own experience or watching how the AI ususally plays it out and their startnig postion and army make up in general. feel free to throw ur own suggestions!!!

[Count Belisarius]

Greek: 9 (I think one of the most difficult faction, 5 isolated cities and 3 major fronts, with a army that is quiet vanilla and will either need to require a lot of mercenary or a very unflexible strategy. the only good news is that u are very if u survive a while.

I think you might be a little too hard on the Greeks. Historically, by the time Alexander of Macedon died, the great cities of Hellas proper had been humbled into military irrelevancy (Sparta and Athens, though Athens continued to be an important cultural center) or destroyed outright (Thebes). The Greek armies in the game ARE archaic and limited, and their cities ARE scattered and disunited. Such was the state of Hellenic civilization at the time.

That said, the Greeks do have their advantages. They control or are in close proximity to some of the the richest real estate in the game. Rhodes and Athens especially have the potential to be HUGE cash cows, and rightly so.

Also, I have found their vanilla infantry unit, the hoplite phalanx, to be one of the most effective units (for its price and technical requirements) in the game. They are generic, granted. But they are reasonably priced, decently armored, and - when deployed correctly - effective against infantry, melee cavalry (something the vaunted Romans have trouble with), chariots, and even elephants under the right circumstances. Like all infantry, they are vulnerable to horse archers. Also, you can access the hoplites fairly readily (Level 2 Barracks, I THINK), which yields an excellent strategic operational tempo. No waiting around in a newly-conquered city for a Legion Barracks to build, just so you can retrain your battered units! Just follow up with an occupying army, drop off a few peasants, and keep moving before your enemies can catch their breaths.

As for the Greeks' strategic problems, you can solve them fairly easily. First, bite the bullet and evacuate Syracuse as early in the game as you can. Syracuse, while valuable, is caught between two fires: the Scipii and the Carthaginians. The city does not have the infrastructure to hold out against these two juggernaughts, and Sicily is much closer to the Greeks' enemies' source of supply and reinforcement than it is to the Greeks', so cut it loose. If you pour men and money into Syracuse, the Macedonians will swamp you with their pesky 'light' lancers.

Second, adopt a defensive stance once you have secured Hellas proper. The only cities you should try to take at first would be Athens (rebel) and Corinth (Macedon, which will score you a Wonder, which is always good). After that, transfer some units to Asia Minor, punch out the rebels opposite Rhodes (another Wonder), and pick off the weak Seleucid city to unite your holdings in Asia. Make a treaty with Pontus, pick up Ancara if you want to bother, and make peace with the Seleucids, who probably have enough trouble on their hands without bothering you. All this while, you will be fending off the Macedonians and probably the Brutii as well, so be prepared.

Your economy should be booming at this point, buoyed by seaborne trade. DO NOT forget to build up your navy to protect your cash flow. Explore as much of the map as you can, getting trade agreements from everybody. By this point, you should have a nice, compact little empire going. You can choose to expand north into Macedonia, south to Crete (always a good idea to beat up on rebels, and experienced Cretan archers are a must), or east into the wilds of Asia Minor, or all three. Enjoy!

P.S. A bonus: Armored Hoplites are the coolest-looking units in the game.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I find the Greeks to be quite easy at times. Syracuse can be held for a while if you use your archers well and if you have enough phalanx units in a battle you can use them as an anvil to charge againts while the enemy is attacking them or you can set up a defensive formation that cannot be penetrated due to the curve you have given it. Boxes work too, but the corners are exceptionally weak.

[RollingWave]

I think you might be a little too hard on the Greeks. Historically, by the time Alexander of Macedon died, the great cities of Hellas proper had been humbled into military irrelevancy (Sparta and Athens, though Athens continued to be an important cultural center) or destroyed outright (Thebes). The Greek armies in the game ARE archaic and limited, and their cities ARE scattered and disunited. Such was the state of Hellenic civilization at the time.

You have to remember that CA never intended for the Greeks to be a playable faction. Only by modding the game can you unlock them. Hence, their lack of exotic units and buildings. That said, the Greeks do have their advantages. They control or are in close proximity to some of the the richest real estate in the game. Rhodes and Athens especially have the potential to be HUGE cash cows, and rightly so.

Also, I have found their vanilla infantry unit, the hoplite phalanx, to be one of the most effective units (for its price and technical requirements) in the game. They are generic, granted. But they are reasonably priced, decently armored, and - when deployed correctly - effective against infantry, melee cavalry (something the vaunted Romans have trouble with), chariots, and even elephants under the right circumstances. Like all infantry, they are vulnerable to horse archers. Also, you can access the hoplites fairly readily (Level 2 Barracks, I THINK), which yields an excellent strategic operational tempo. No waiting around in a newly-conquered city for a Legion Barracks to build, just so you can retrain your battered units! Just follow up with an occupying army, drop off a few peasants, and keep moving before your enemies can catch their breaths.

As for the Greeks' strategic problems, you can solve them fairly easily. First, bite the bullet and evacuate Syracuse as early in the game as you can. Syracuse, while valuable, is caught between two fires: the Scipii and the Carthaginians. The city does not have the infrastructure to hold out against these two juggernaughts, and Sicily is much closer to the Greeks' enemies' source of supply and reinforcement than it is to the Greeks', so cut it loose. If you pour men and money into Syracuse, the Macedonians will swamp you with their pesky 'light' lancers.

Acturally i think u got it wrong ... the Greeks are one of the playable factions, the Macedonians are not. which is all the funnier because a good number of the unplayable factions are easier than the Greeks.

Yes they are obviously playable, but i am talking from a relative in game point, all the other hellenic factions can do almost exactly the same thing the greeks can except they can do it better, they all have better calvary, their pikemans are when used right better than the Hoplites, Pontus gets much better skrimish cavs, all except Macedon gets chariots, Egypt has great archers along with axemans etc...... Selucids gets Elephants. the only thing the Greeks get is.... Pigs????? Spartan hoplite is not really better than the top tier pikemans in most fights except on walls where it kinda defeat their original purpose.

Obviously by exploiting AI stupidity any faction can dominate with a little skill and luck, but talking from a more relative stand point.. if all of htem were played by equal people. The Greek city states are definately one of the hardest faction to play, I would think only Dacia can truely match their misery of having both horrible starts and horrible later game potentials.

Which is why in most games, the Greeks/Selucid/Gaul are usually the first to bite the dust. but i've seen more games where Selucid and Gauls end up doing ok than I've seen where the Greeks acturally manage to hold on to anything cept maybe Sparta itself.

[QwertyMIDX]

The Greek hops are better than the pikemen, try having Makedonian Royal Pikemen or Seleukid Silver Shields go up against armoured hops, they lose everytime. The GC Armored hop unit is one of the best values in the game.

[Magraev]

A couple of comments:

I think Carthage should be an 8 or 9. I've never ever seen Carthage prosper without the benefit of my benevolent leadership They are almost always destroyed or reduced to irrelevance quickly.

Greece shoud maybe be 1 or 2 easier imho. They sometimes manage to hold on in asia minor for quite a while, and can humiliate the macedonians if they are fighting the Thracians (they still lose in the end to the Brutii naturally).

Egypt should be a 1 - they always dominate, occasionally even the Bruutii stumble but the egyptians always come out on top.

I would give parthia and armenia +1 or +2 since I can't use horse archers well, but that's just me.

Add 1 to the spanish (their roster is pathetic) and we're almost in agreement.

I wish for a mod where every faction has a shot at winning - not just romans and egyptians.

[Akka]

Greece 9 in difficulty ?

Greece is quite easy to play. The only difficulties, are the flood of Macedonian cavalry at the start, and the archer-heavy faction (which are a headache to take on, considering the absolutely pathetic state of greek's archery and cavalry).

But hoplite can hold the line quite strongly, and once you start pushing back Macedon, the game is won. NOTHING can stand up to the greek infantry, except perhaps the best roman troops. And it's not even certain.


As for Macedon... They have insane cavalry, very good infantry, and are in easy position to take the whole Greece in the very first few turns. They should be 4 at best in difficulty. I think they may be even easier than Brutii, in fact.

[RollingWave]

Well Akka, i think you need to ask urself though, if you were playing all the factions (or all teh factions are played by skilled people instead of dumb computers) then would greece still be easy to play? you have 3 fronts and in all 3 you are in the weakest position (Pontus has the best position on Asia minor... Selucide has the potential to be the strongest thing around, on Sciliy Carthage starts teh strongest and Scipiies is also stronger than you... on the Balkans the Macedonians start with at least 3 times as much stuff as you.) The only thing you got going for you early on is Rhodes.

As for Macedonians vs Brutties, The Macedonians still have to deal with the Thracians and Dacians sometimes, but Brutties have their back totally safe and also start with the Roman allies who will give them big trade a lot sooner than the Macedonians. Not to Meantion they will suffer from a unstoppable plague fast. Early on Macedon army will own the Romans due to better Cav but later on it starts to get really tough. but ofcourse with Macedon's position you can seriously hurt the Romans long befoer Marius reform comes around.

In the Short run Macedon is good.. but in longer run they probably will lose out to the Romans.

[Jambo]

I have to say, I'm in agreement with some of the previous posters. Having played a full Julii campaign and now part-way through a Greek campaign, I'd say the Greeks have been by far the easier of the two (VH/H)! Their phalanx units are awesome - they are cheap, quick to train and don't require a comparatively high tech level to attain. Whilst I agree it's somewhat difficult to expand out of Syracuse, it's very easy to defend that city for all eternity with hoplites. Simply defend breaches or the city plaza with phalanxes and nothing ever gets through.

So I'd knock Greeks down to the low difficulty level when in the hands of a human player. As the AI, yes, they inevitably suffer at the hands of the Brutii.

[AMD4EVER]

Maybe I'm just wierd but I've never found any Roman faction to be as easy as the Greeks. That counts from when I started playing this game to this day.

If anyone wants a tip on how to take Syracuse within 5 turns just check out the below website. It is a compilation of thoughts I wrote up during my mission to win the game with the Greeks as quickly as possible. Took me 28 turns I believe. The key to the Greeks being easy is taking Syracuse quickly and not allowing the Macedon's to take a breath without another one of your armies on their doorstep.

http://www.geocities.com/AMD_4EVER/Rome/main.html

While I've never played any faction except the Romans and Greeks, the one I would least like to play would be Dacia or the Gaul. I'm sure they are in far worse of a position than the Greeks are.

[Oaty]

While I've never played any faction except the Romans and Greeks, the one I would least like to play would be Dacia or the Gaul. I'm sure they are in far worse of a position than the Greeks are.

You should try at least the Gauls.

They are actually easier to play than the Julii, lower tech tree, lotsa land and a bigger overall popualtion.

If the campaign were played by humans, Julii's only chance would be if Brutii or Scippi helped suppress the Gauls in Patavium and mediolium.

My order from easiest to hardest

Brutii
Gaul
Germans
Scythians
Pontus
Selucids
Julii
Geeks
Carthage

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I think the Greeks would easily defeat Horse Archer factions, for only one reason: STAYING POWER. They can hold against great volleys of arrows and the most important part of the game, city assaults, is nearly impossible against an equally well funded human opponent. My SPQR army of artillery, a little cavalry and infantry was nearly defeated (I captured the plaza with my last remaining artillery squad, they were outnumbered 40 to 430, they won due to less fatigue and more overall speed, 1 more second and I would have lost.) by an all Spartan Hoplite group due to the overwhelming superiority of Spartan Hoplites and i am the better player.

The Greeks are quite easy as long as you set up solid formations of Hoplites in such a way that they cannot be flanked unless the line is demolished. Use battlefield features such as; rocky outcroppings, walls, buildings and such or just make squares circles and arcs.

[AMD4EVER]

Brutii
Gaul
Germans
Scythians
Pontus
Selucids
Julii
Geeks
Carthage

How dare ye call the Greeks Geeks!

I haven't tried the Carthage yet but they don't really look all that difficult. They are sort of setup just like the Greeks are in that they could probably expand from three different locations. Take Sicily, expands from Carthage eastward into Egypt, and take your Cordoba (I believe it is called) settlement and expand through Spain. Maybe it would be harder than this especially in the Cordoba expansion but I can't see Carthage having a great deal of difficulty once the Scipii are at bay.

[katank]

Carthage is very easy if you blitz Capua, two Brutii cities, and then Messena.
You can eliminate 2 Roman factions in 5 turns and then Rome is almost yours.
Iberian inf are craptacular but the ele unit more than makes up for it. 4-6 depending on how you play it.

Greeks are quite good. With 1.2, the phalanxes got beefed up. Hoplites can easily take out hastati and armoured hops are amazing. Greek temples are also great. Probly a 3 or 4. Only weakness is greek cav which die vs. anything. Use cretan mercs to beef up archer/hop shield and you don't need much cav. Use diplomats to take care of Egyptians.

Germans are the strongest barbarian faction and the combo of spear warbands and screechers are unstoppable esp. at town level! A 3.

Spain, Thrace, Dacia, and Numidia are the relative suckers due to poor starting economy. WIth 1.2, you can't sustain yourself by selling maps any more so these pretty bad. All 8-10

Dacia is good though as taking Thessalonica and then Greece gets you out of the red and then having nice units quickly. It's absolutely necessary to blitz.

Numidia is nice as you can sneak attack Thebes and Carthage fairly early. With quick blitz, you can stabilize economy a bit by pushing the Carthaginians out of Africa and the Egyptians from the Nile valley, essentially neutralizing both. That part is fun but very quick mobilization against Romans is necessary or you will lose Carthage very fast.

[AMD4EVER]

I decided to try Carthage just to see how difficult they are to play. Just trying to take the map as quickly as possible I've got 31 settlements in 257. My Cordoba settlement spread out early to consume the Spanish but struggled for a while against the Gaul before pushing them out. There is no doubt that the Gaul were my biggest threat the whole way up to this point as their armies were just huge, although being outnumbered by them isn't so concerning. My Carthage army expanded west to destroy what Numidia settlements were over there. Sicily was taken quickly and the troops there jumped onto Italy to destroy the Brutii and then the Scipii and so on. I'm just pushing onto Greece right now having taken Apollonia and Thermon with my troops at the walls of Athens. I'm attacking Swia next turn to finish off Numidia and have three fleets with troops heading towards Alexandria and Memphis. Money is no object at this point so victory is inevitable.

Having never played Carthage before and being more than used to playing Greece, it took me a while to realize that horses are the only way to go with them which is a complete 180 from the Greeks. They really have no good troops that I've seen so far and their archers are not that great. The troops are only good for garrison and using the siege weapons.

I'd rate Carthage equal to the Julii in difficulty at around 5-6.

[RollingWave]

Carthage's phalanx units are acceptablly useful usually but will take a while to get to, sacred band seem to be relatively close to armored hoplites and they are very helpful in storming cities. and obviously onager/heavy onager is a neccisty. though yes the rest of their line up is pretty crap.. but to utilize ur calvary to full strength will often require some infantry support no matter how crap they are.

[Arrowhead]

Spartan hoplite is not really better than the top tier pikemans in most fights except on walls where it kinda defeat their original purpose.

That is so wrong. Even if they are flanked, Spartans defeat almost anything.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah, and they should. They were trained from infancy! They would then be extraordinarily skilled in all the areas they trained in.

[hellenes]

Well for the relative approach I agree with the original poster that IF we had a Mp campaign then the Greek cities would be hard to play...
But with the current dump AI they are very easy on turn one blitz Messana armies by the time that the Roman reinforcement arrives you have dealt with the primary army and the second army has nowhere to retreate, after that sally a siege by the Carthage wich will be their doom, blitz at the same time Corinth where your spy will open the gates for you, and Athens on the same turn, with Rhodes and Zeus wonders plus if you blitz the cut off Sardis Seleucids and Hallicarnassus on the way you get 4 wonders thats a LOT of cash...=victory!
As for the rest the Parthians are VERY hard with the cloning rebels which pop out of nowhere and the nature of the wide spread lands but if you displace the Seleucids after that the HA Cat combo rules, same for Armenia though they have access to the Black sea, Scythia is simply Impossible with 1.2 if you dont migrate to the south abandoning all the useless landmass, Spain Thrace Dacia have pretty much the same dificulty with Thrace having the advantage of access to the south Balkan cashcow of Greece, The Germans are strong if you have the mental strenght to deal with the cloning rebels same for the Gaul and the British, as for the Carthagininas if you take Sicily the game is over, Ive modded the "egyptians"---vomit smilie--- to a more mature version from the previous Hollywood crap product of someones sick imagination so I cant comment on them, the Seleucids are similar to the Greeks if you blitz middle east youve done for the rest of the game...

Hellenes