Faction difficulty rating

[RollingWave]

From ur experience and observation of the usual AI conclusion etc... on the scale of 1 - 10 (1 being very easy 10 being super hard) how would u rate the different factions (exlcuding senate and rebel)

Obviously for really skilled gamers all of them are not super hard, but realtively speaking there shoudl still be a good comparason.

I'll start...
Brutis: 2 (obvious easiest Roman faction, weak enemy, rich province, most likely to get all the wonders)

Scipiies: 4 (Hard start, but gets rich pretty fast... but if u end up losing Sciliy early which is definately possible ur screwed.)

Jullies: 3 (medium difficult enemy, should not have a lot of problem in the long run, but also won't get very rich too quickly)

Gaul: 7 (many enemies and seperated land, although army make up is good for rush and reliable in most cases. early success and the balance of several front is abosalutely crucial)

Germans:6 (kinda like the Gaul but with weaker early enemies and a slightly better overall army)

Brits:6 (much like german, the down side is they probably have to face the Romans when they are already very strong, the upside is their start is easy)

Spanish:7 (difficult and weak start with less rush potential due to crappier infantry, and likely encounter with strong romans, but once u secure the Iberian ur position is good)

Carthage:5 (should usually win on Sciliy, Numidia should usually only be a pest unless u make big mistake, might not hold all front but as long as u hold on to sciliy and Carthage ur long run potential is insane too.) army is acceptable early and good late except for the lack of foot archer.

Greek: 9 (I think one of the most difficult faction, 5 isolated cities and 3 major fronts, with a army that is quiet vanilla and will either need to require a lot of mercenary or a very unflexible strategy. the only good news is that u are very if u survive a while.

Macedon : 6(in best position to win the balkans, has a much better army than the greeks, once taken over the city states will become filithy rich, only difficulty is that the plauge will hit u fast and the romans will keep comming. while u can't get to them that early like the Gauls.)

Selucids: 7 ( much like the greeks they start with several isolated province and many fronts with strong enemies, like the greeks they are flithy rich and will only get richer, but their army is much better and almsot unarguablly the best overall in the game, if they can get pass the early stage they will steam roll at an insane pace)

Pontus: 6 (starts small time but in the best position to secure the very rich Asia minor, army is good for all stages with a lot of flexibility. in position to take Rhodes quickly, as long as they can keep the Selucids and Armenians pointing their swords at each other they will be easy)

Pathia: 6 (starts poor and far away but with the best early army type (horse archer) as long as they can grab babylon and a few other rich province they will be strong, however their army will remain very crap at seiging large stone cities. but should be extermely diffiuclt to beat on the field)

Egypt: 2 (easiest non Roman.. solid army, very easy starting position with the weak numidians and the troubled Selucids, grab the middle east and then head of asia minor should not be much trouble, very rich with a very good late game army too)

Armenian: 7 (start with good army type but in troubled position. it would be almsot impossible to go into Scythian land for a while while Pathia is about the same as you early on and Pontus can only be reached through narrow mountain passes. with all 4 sides having enemies and no easy to reach target in sight, Armenians are in a rought position though they are within reach of Asia minor and the middle east, giving them good potential in the long run.)

Dacia: 8 in the middle of all the barbarian tribes... all ur enemy are hard to reach and not very worth while, have no special unit, by the time you finally get some decent secured position you will face very strong Macedon or Roman or German.

Scythia: 7 start is good and bad... the good is that you can field horse archers anywhere the bad is that you are in the middle of no where, if you are playing a Imperial game it's a loooooong way to Rome.

Thrace: 7 starting position is difficult and you are also small time, the only good news is that you can reach Byzantium the fastest, the bad news is that this will get u into a fight with Macedon, and if u win that the Romans rolling over the dead Macedonians will only be stronger. ur cross breed army is decent but also don't have much late game steam.

Numidia: 6 u have the advantage against carthage early on as most of their stuff is on Sciliy, sacking Carthage fast and you will be in a secure positon to go whereever you want, ur postion should be quiet wealthy no matter where u go. the main problem is that ur army is limited later on and u'll have to tackle some pretty well build up Romans.


These are of course just my casul observation from either my own experience or watching how the AI ususally plays it out and their startnig postion and army make up in general. feel free to throw ur own suggestions!!!

[Count Belisarius]

Greek: 9 (I think one of the most difficult faction, 5 isolated cities and 3 major fronts, with a army that is quiet vanilla and will either need to require a lot of mercenary or a very unflexible strategy. the only good news is that u are very if u survive a while.

I think you might be a little too hard on the Greeks. Historically, by the time Alexander of Macedon died, the great cities of Hellas proper had been humbled into military irrelevancy (Sparta and Athens, though Athens continued to be an important cultural center) or destroyed outright (Thebes). The Greek armies in the game ARE archaic and limited, and their cities ARE scattered and disunited. Such was the state of Hellenic civilization at the time.

That said, the Greeks do have their advantages. They control or are in close proximity to some of the the richest real estate in the game. Rhodes and Athens especially have the potential to be HUGE cash cows, and rightly so.

Also, I have found their vanilla infantry unit, the hoplite phalanx, to be one of the most effective units (for its price and technical requirements) in the game. They are generic, granted. But they are reasonably priced, decently armored, and - when deployed correctly - effective against infantry, melee cavalry (something the vaunted Romans have trouble with), chariots, and even elephants under the right circumstances. Like all infantry, they are vulnerable to horse archers. Also, you can access the hoplites fairly readily (Level 2 Barracks, I THINK), which yields an excellent strategic operational tempo. No waiting around in a newly-conquered city for a Legion Barracks to build, just so you can retrain your battered units! Just follow up with an occupying army, drop off a few peasants, and keep moving before your enemies can catch their breaths.

As for the Greeks' strategic problems, you can solve them fairly easily. First, bite the bullet and evacuate Syracuse as early in the game as you can. Syracuse, while valuable, is caught between two fires: the Scipii and the Carthaginians. The city does not have the infrastructure to hold out against these two juggernaughts, and Sicily is much closer to the Greeks' enemies' source of supply and reinforcement than it is to the Greeks', so cut it loose. If you pour men and money into Syracuse, the Macedonians will swamp you with their pesky 'light' lancers.

Second, adopt a defensive stance once you have secured Hellas proper. The only cities you should try to take at first would be Athens (rebel) and Corinth (Macedon, which will score you a Wonder, which is always good). After that, transfer some units to Asia Minor, punch out the rebels opposite Rhodes (another Wonder), and pick off the weak Seleucid city to unite your holdings in Asia. Make a treaty with Pontus, pick up Ancara if you want to bother, and make peace with the Seleucids, who probably have enough trouble on their hands without bothering you. All this while, you will be fending off the Macedonians and probably the Brutii as well, so be prepared.

Your economy should be booming at this point, buoyed by seaborne trade. DO NOT forget to build up your navy to protect your cash flow. Explore as much of the map as you can, getting trade agreements from everybody. By this point, you should have a nice, compact little empire going. You can choose to expand north into Macedonia, south to Crete (always a good idea to beat up on rebels, and experienced Cretan archers are a must), or east into the wilds of Asia Minor, or all three. Enjoy!

P.S. A bonus: Armored Hoplites are the coolest-looking units in the game.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I find the Greeks to be quite easy at times. Syracuse can be held for a while if you use your archers well and if you have enough phalanx units in a battle you can use them as an anvil to charge againts while the enemy is attacking them or you can set up a defensive formation that cannot be penetrated due to the curve you have given it. Boxes work too, but the corners are exceptionally weak.

[RollingWave]

I think you might be a little too hard on the Greeks. Historically, by the time Alexander of Macedon died, the great cities of Hellas proper had been humbled into military irrelevancy (Sparta and Athens, though Athens continued to be an important cultural center) or destroyed outright (Thebes). The Greek armies in the game ARE archaic and limited, and their cities ARE scattered and disunited. Such was the state of Hellenic civilization at the time.

You have to remember that CA never intended for the Greeks to be a playable faction. Only by modding the game can you unlock them. Hence, their lack of exotic units and buildings. That said, the Greeks do have their advantages. They control or are in close proximity to some of the the richest real estate in the game. Rhodes and Athens especially have the potential to be HUGE cash cows, and rightly so.

Also, I have found their vanilla infantry unit, the hoplite phalanx, to be one of the most effective units (for its price and technical requirements) in the game. They are generic, granted. But they are reasonably priced, decently armored, and - when deployed correctly - effective against infantry, melee cavalry (something the vaunted Romans have trouble with), chariots, and even elephants under the right circumstances. Like all infantry, they are vulnerable to horse archers. Also, you can access the hoplites fairly readily (Level 2 Barracks, I THINK), which yields an excellent strategic operational tempo. No waiting around in a newly-conquered city for a Legion Barracks to build, just so you can retrain your battered units! Just follow up with an occupying army, drop off a few peasants, and keep moving before your enemies can catch their breaths.

As for the Greeks' strategic problems, you can solve them fairly easily. First, bite the bullet and evacuate Syracuse as early in the game as you can. Syracuse, while valuable, is caught between two fires: the Scipii and the Carthaginians. The city does not have the infrastructure to hold out against these two juggernaughts, and Sicily is much closer to the Greeks' enemies' source of supply and reinforcement than it is to the Greeks', so cut it loose. If you pour men and money into Syracuse, the Macedonians will swamp you with their pesky 'light' lancers.

Acturally i think u got it wrong ... the Greeks are one of the playable factions, the Macedonians are not. which is all the funnier because a good number of the unplayable factions are easier than the Greeks.

Yes they are obviously playable, but i am talking from a relative in game point, all the other hellenic factions can do almost exactly the same thing the greeks can except they can do it better, they all have better calvary, their pikemans are when used right better than the Hoplites, Pontus gets much better skrimish cavs, all except Macedon gets chariots, Egypt has great archers along with axemans etc...... Selucids gets Elephants. the only thing the Greeks get is.... Pigs????? Spartan hoplite is not really better than the top tier pikemans in most fights except on walls where it kinda defeat their original purpose.

Obviously by exploiting AI stupidity any faction can dominate with a little skill and luck, but talking from a more relative stand point.. if all of htem were played by equal people. The Greek city states are definately one of the hardest faction to play, I would think only Dacia can truely match their misery of having both horrible starts and horrible later game potentials.

Which is why in most games, the Greeks/Selucid/Gaul are usually the first to bite the dust. but i've seen more games where Selucid and Gauls end up doing ok than I've seen where the Greeks acturally manage to hold on to anything cept maybe Sparta itself.

[QwertyMIDX]

The Greek hops are better than the pikemen, try having Makedonian Royal Pikemen or Seleukid Silver Shields go up against armoured hops, they lose everytime. The GC Armored hop unit is one of the best values in the game.

[Magraev]

A couple of comments:

I think Carthage should be an 8 or 9. I've never ever seen Carthage prosper without the benefit of my benevolent leadership They are almost always destroyed or reduced to irrelevance quickly.

Greece shoud maybe be 1 or 2 easier imho. They sometimes manage to hold on in asia minor for quite a while, and can humiliate the macedonians if they are fighting the Thracians (they still lose in the end to the Brutii naturally).

Egypt should be a 1 - they always dominate, occasionally even the Bruutii stumble but the egyptians always come out on top.

I would give parthia and armenia +1 or +2 since I can't use horse archers well, but that's just me.

Add 1 to the spanish (their roster is pathetic) and we're almost in agreement.

I wish for a mod where every faction has a shot at winning - not just romans and egyptians.

[Arrowhead]

Spartan hoplite is not really better than the top tier pikemans in most fights except on walls where it kinda defeat their original purpose.

That is so wrong. Even if they are flanked, Spartans defeat almost anything.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah, and they should. They were trained from infancy! They would then be extraordinarily skilled in all the areas they trained in.