Crusading Problems

[Nitrotic]

Hello. This is my first post to the forums, and like many others, I have problems. The one YOU people may be able to help with is in Vanilla Medieval, sans the Viking Invasion. I am playing as the Danes, and the Papacy is intact, but I cannot Crusade. I can't even build the building that lets me create the Crusade marker. So I need some advice on this, any ideas?

[Ash]

The Danes can't crusade to begin with.

[bretwalda]

By default Danish, Polish (and Hungarians) cannot crusade by game design. If you want to mod you probably can do it for vanilla, too, but I did it for VI. (see below)

[Nitrotic]

I see. Why is that exactly?

[bretwalda]

Why was the game designed like that or why can you mod it, or what is your question?

[English assassin]

Its historical I think, the Danes didn't launch any crusades in real life. the game will support Danish crusades if you mod it so its not a problem with the programme.

Welcome to the Org BTW.

[Mithrandir]

Probably, why is it that Danes etc. can't crusade...

Welcome to The Org Nitrotic,
I think it had something to do with historical accuracy...with which many members disagreed...

[Nitrotic]

Well, yeah, it was a question of why they couldn't. But couldn't the Viking Invasions have been considered crusades of a sort? At any rate, how can I mod the game to let me have a Danish Crusade? Otherwise, I'd have to be French... *shudders theatrically.*

[Zarax]

Yes, just mod the building prod files and add Danish to the factions able to build the chapter house.
If you also want to use some of the crusader knights you'll also have to mod the crusader prod file.
Look for the Gnome editor, it will make the life much easier for you.

[mikkele]

But couldn't the Viking Invasions have been considered crusades of a sort?

Absolutely not. The Vikings made no attempt whatsoever to convert anybody to their own belief system. They went after three things only: Loot, women, and a good fight (in no particular order).

[2faced]

The Danes DID crusade, but apparently CA didn't think so, so just mod it.

[bretwalda]

The Danes DID crusade, but apparently CA didn't think so, so just mod it.

Same thing for Hungarians: they crusaded albeit not a very notable or successful one.

[_Aetius_]

I think its a matter of balance of power, the muslim factions have a hard enough time as it is, the french, spanish, english, italians and germans always try crusades sometimes the sicilians and aragonese to, the muslims also have to fight the orthodox Byzantine Empire, they are also prone to destruction from the golden horde.

Anymore crusade able factions would make the muslim position impossible, if the AI decided to launch crusades, besides, the hungarians and poles are far to close to muslim territory to gain enough men in a crusade, england for example when it launches crusades, marches though french, german, possibly italian, and hungarian territory thus picking up possibly thousands of crusaders along the way to the holyland. Be better off just launching a normal invasion rather than crusade if hungary.

[bretwalda]

I respectfully disagree. I think IF playing balance is upset by this it can be solved easily by changing crusade objectives in GA goals.

Also it is very much up to the player who gets big in any game. Many say "this and this faction always gets big" - I see that this is up to the player... If you are Turks - Eggys and Byz hardly get superpower, if you are English, the French won't last long. It is usually the one power on the other end of the map that gets big.

[_Aetius_]

I think its the key to MTW's lastability, any faction can be a superpower, ive seen Byzantium go crazy and conquer everything, then the next game be crushed within 30 years and instead Sicily is the superpower, or in a game where the HRE is the superpower is destroyed then France takes the superpower title but then itself loses and the Almohads become the power.

Thats why players can keep coming back because even minor decisions, to attack a nation or not, can influence the outcome of the entire continent, and no game is ever identical and the same decisions arent made every game, so it has infinite possibilites.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

They went after three things only: Loot, women, and a good fight (in no particular order).

What a life......

[ajaxfetish]

Absolutely not. The Vikings made no attempt whatsoever to convert anybody to their own belief system. They went after three things only: Loot, women, and a good fight (in no particular order).

Actually conversion, especially forced conversion, was never a big part of the crusading movement. Crusades were about control of land, especially the Holy Land. The main objective of the first crusade was to make the trip to Jerusalem safe for pilgrims. Same goes for jihads. The early Muslims were quick to conquer land but readily allowed Christians and Muslims to maintain their own religion (not quite so tolerant of pagans, but took it easy on "people of the book"). Many living in regions conquered by crusades or jihads did end up converting by their own initiative, but there was no tremendous pressure to do so from the conquerors.

[_Aetius_]

The main objective of the first crusade was to make the trip to Jerusalem safe for pilgrims

I dont think it was that simple, it seems more than anything the 1st crusade was simply a tool used by the papacy to increase its influence, territory and divert thousands of restless would-be knights from fighting each other and instead aim their war-lust at the islamic world.

Wernt some later crusades aimed at pagan *barbarians* though, surely conversion was the main idea of those particular crusades.

[Mithrandir]

The question has been answered and the thread has gone off topic,
discussion can be continued in the monastery. Moved ->

[Spartakus]

As already has been pointed out; the Danes did crusade. These crusades were not however aimed at the Holy Land, all except one (as I can recall) took place in the Baltic. Here the Danes carved out their very own crusader state in Estonia, which was later sold to the Teutonic Knights.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...817689-4668168

In fact, the Danish flag of today stems from these days of crusading. The banner came sailing down from the sky when king Valdemar the Victorious was fighting pagans in the Baltic, landing at his feet. This flag was later adopted by all the Scandinavian countries with small variations in the colouring.

[Ash]

As already has been pointed out; the Danes did crusade. In fact, the Danish flag of today stems from these days of crusading. The banner came sailing down from the sky when king Valdemar the Victorious was fighting pagans in the Baltic, landing at his feet. This flag was later adopted by all the Scandinavian countries with small variations in the colouring.

I does?

I have a book on flags which also gives a short history of each country's current heraldry.

According to my book the Danish flag was originally a square (much like the Swiss flag) with a straight cross (like the current Greek flag - arms were equal). This flag was first used by a Danish King in the 14th century. In later times the arm towards the end was lengthned and it became the "Scandenavian cross" as we know it today (the Danish flag is called the 'Dannebrog'). Another variant to this flag was the "Splitflag" which sported a split in the flag in the shape of a swallow.

The reason the Danish flag was adopted by every Scandinavian country was that Denmark ruled over the whole region (14th-16th century) as you undoubtedly know.

I don't see any references to the Danish crusades (didn't they just conquer Estonia?) having influence on the current Danish flag.

[Adrian II]

I don't see any references to the Danish crusades (didn't they just conquer Estonia?) having influence on the current Danish flag.

Ah, but look what our new sticky for historical resources brought up under Denmark.

Link

Link

And there's lots more on that site.

[Spartakus]

According to my book the Danish flag was originally a square (much like the Swiss flag) with a straight cross (like the current Greek flag - arms were equal).

Yes, that's the Dannebrog, the very same I was talking about. I'm sorry I forgot to mention that the shape of the cross was a little different, though not much.

Anyway, the story I told is just a legend, a myth to answer the question of when this flag was first used. I see you have somewhat different information on that subject, but I much prefer the legend.