Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

[weejonnie]

Pontus has attacked - the Selucids are wiped out - their army does better against me than the Romans since they are mainly spearmen when I relieved Sidon (which means they are effective against horse - and the legionary troops take a long time to build.)

Had Spy problems with them - the first real indicator of what a spy can do - had something like 80% unrest and 80% distance penalty for Jerusalem. Then the Spy moved to Sidon and increased unrest there - and then moved back to Jerusalem to repeat the unrest. Eventually my own spies killed him off.

I think that Pontus is relatively weak - it certainly looks that way in the graphs section - but is benefitting from a very compact region - basically all of Turkey - (and now Damascus, which is only a town, so wont help them that much). My own area stretches from Tingi (opposite Corduba) in the West, Patavium (North Central) and Jerusalem in the East. There is a LOT of 80% distance penalties and the Nile cities aren't really helping that much since they have large peasant garrisons. However I can't move the capital over there until I have numidified Italy.

I want to basically kick the Julii out of Italy (Menolevium/ Segesta and the original city in the West of Italy to take), take Caralis, and fight a holding campaign against Pontus. No doubt the Brutii will send forces up to Patavium, but that I can manage, and am now getting some reasonable income each turn - sufficient for some development - although I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)

[ReluctantSamurai]

Unless you mean when user is not playing as Rome.

That's what I meant....

I think that Pontus is relatively weak

Watch out if they get developed Heavy Pontic Cavalry are as much a pain in the a$$ as horse archers (and watch out because these guys are very good in melee once they run out of javelins!), Cappadocian Cavalry are a variant on heavy Cataphracts, they get both variants of Chariots (scythed and archer), and Phalanx Pike along with Bronze Shield Pike. A formidable roster. A fun faction to play, btw, due to the unit roster and location.

I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)

The only time I fail to reach at least 1M denarii in a campaign is when playing a barbarian faction. I play on VH/H settings, so the VH for the campaign map means a penalty on income (-10% IIRC), big bonuses in denarii for the AI, and the part I enjoy the most---rebels will actually band together if left alone and attack your cities (Spartacus anyone?)

Can't tolerate the bonuses given the AI (+7's) on VH battle difficulty. If I'm defeated on the battlefield, I want it to be because I used faulty tactics or had inferior quality troops...not super peasants trouncing my elite

[Vincent Butler]

and watch out because these guys are very good in melee once they run out of javelins!

Hear, hear. Now, if you don't mod Pontus, they only get 80 men in a Phalanx Pike unit, but they have better stats than standard Phalanx Pikes. Their attack is the same, but defense is 3 better, which puts their attack 2 worse and defense 2 better than Bronze Shields. I would imagine Bronze Shields have better morale, not to mention 121 men, so certainly it is better for Pontus to use Bronze Shields, the loss in defense is made up for by better stamina, morale, and more men. Cappadocian Cav have same stats as Cataphracts, but their secondary attack is not armour-piercing, being swords instead of maces.

I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)

My Scipii campaigns never reach that, but as Greece, I have had over 12,000,000 denarii before. Certainly as Brutii you will achieve multiple millions. The temples of Hermes/Mercury help there, and Greece starts out with the Colossus of Rhodes, making it even more lucrative. Greece is also right in the Aegean, which in my opinion is the most lucrative region in the game. I have seen Athens making over 12,000 denarii. Tarentum also does well, have seen it over 7,000, so the Adriatic is also good. I play on M/M.

[weejonnie]

Hear, hear. Now, if you don't mod Pontus, they only get 80 men in a Phalanx Pike unit, but they have better stats than standard Phalanx Pikes. Their attack is the same, but defense is 3 better, which puts their attack 2 worse and defense 2 better than Bronze Shields. I would imagine Bronze Shields have better morale, not to mention 121 men, so certainly it is better for Pontus to use Bronze Shields, the loss in defense is made up for by better stamina, morale, and more men. Cappadocian Cav have same stats as Cataphracts, but their secondary attack is not armour-piercing, being swords instead of maces.



My Scipii campaigns never reach that, but as Greece, I have had over 12,000,000 denarii before. Certainly as Brutii you will achieve multiple millions. The temples of Hermes/Mercury help there, and Greece starts out with the Colossus of Rhodes, making it even more lucrative. Greece is also right in the Aegean, which in my opinion is the most lucrative region in the game. I have seen Athens making over 12,000 denarii. Tarentum also does well, have seen it over 7,000, so the Adriatic is also good. I play on M/M.

Think I may have to give up Numidia campaign.

Memphis rebelled (big stack there now of rebels) - so lost Egyptian loyalty.

Brutii keep attacking Patavium. No real problems here, except it slows down growth as I keep having to deal with the army. I actually had a city defence on the map - 3 archers, 1 mercenry, 1 Numidian Legionary, One Desert soldiers and the general - who didn't do much except stay close to the troops - against two beseieging armies: The ram on the gates inflicted 87% damage before I had killed all the troops manning it (with oil as well of course) but once the velites on ladders were killed I spent 30 minutes twiddling my thumbs - the siege tower manned by principes never advanced. I have taken Caralis and can probably build up to taking the Julii capital of Segesta.

No - the problem is Pontus. They are so compact (all of Asia Minor) that they can keep sending stack after stack at my army camped in the valley outside Sidon, and reinforcing isn't easy since I need large garrisons in Sidon & Jerusalem. The latest stack is virtually all cavalry - including horse archers/ chariots, so I fear the worst. I only make 4000 - 8000 to spend a turn (corruption is terrible - any ideas how to get it down?)

What annoyed me is that I weakened the three Roman factions so much (at one time or another) that I hoped they would be struggling against the Gauls/ Brits or Greek Cities/ Macedon/ Thrace - but they are bouncing back - it looks as if no one dared attack them.

[Ludens]

What annoyed me is that I weakened the three Roman factions so much (at one time or another) that I hoped they would be struggling against the Gauls/ Brits or Greek Cities/ Macedon/ Thrace - but they are bouncing back - it looks as if no one dared attack them.

That's actually normal behaviour: the A.I. is programmed to not fight factions that are at war with the player. It's a very frustrating feature: you attack someone that's at war with two other factions, and the next turn both declare a ceasefire. There's a couple of things you can do to make diplomacy more sane, but this particular feature is built into the A.I.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Think I may have to give up Numidia campaign.

Without any screenies, I'd have to say you expanded too fast without securing what you captured with an iron hand

Memphis rebelled (big stack there now of rebels) - so lost Egyptian loyalty.

I don't understand why more players don't adopt my method of ZPG It doesn't work 100% of the time, but almost I rarely have to deal with rebellions in my campaigns, and even then the greatest risk is only just after conquering a city. Give me a year or two and the whole squalor/unrest thing goes away...even with cities like Carthage, Alexandria, Tanais, etc. that have grain-driven population grwoth, or cities with large unrest % built in (coded) like Jerusalem, Patavium, Tarsus, etc. It's not that difficult to do, and I pretty much laid out the guidelines for doing it in the ZPG thread we had here awhile back...

No - the problem is Pontus.

You were warned

[Vincent Butler]

I don't understand why more players don't adopt my method of ZPG It doesn't work 100% of the time, but almost I rarely have to deal with rebellions in my campaigns, and even then the greatest risk is only just after conquering a city. Give me a year or two and the whole squalor/unrest thing goes away

It is certainly a consideration with me now. I have not quite got it ironed out like you have, but I look at the city and use that to determine what I want to do. Salona grows slowly, I use a population growth temple if I can. Patavium or others with built-in unrest, I use a public order temple. I am hesitant in some places to upgrade my markets because of it. Taxes are also a great controller of growth, but then you run into increased unrest because of the taxes.

Now, I also keep larger garrisons in case the town gets attacked, and to help with public order. Now, with my Macedon campaign, I can probably field weak units in Greece, I have more Levy Pikemen and Militia Hoplites there than on my frontiers. Greek towns, as Macedon, are not likely to riot or be attacked, at this point. I do keep good units around, like Phalanx Pikemen, to create my armies. For a while Greece was an army factory. Using Thermon, Larissa, Athens, Corinth, and Sparta, I could train an army of ten units in two turns, and so was cranking out armies. Macedon can certainly make the money to do that.

That's actually normal behaviour: the A.I. is programmed to not fight factions that are at war with the player.

I would say the exception to that would be Rome against Egypt. I know in my current Macedon, Rome is fighting me and Egypt, who is also fighting me. Stupid Egyptians backstabbed me as I was coming to their aid (not like I did not expect it). Scipii took Alexandria and Memphis from them, so I was moving to take those towns to weaken Scipii. Never mind that by taking those towns, Egypt would not be made any stronger, which was also part of my plan. My enemy takes my ally's towns, then I take those from my enemy. I would have to take them anyway, so I would rather do it while allied with Egypt so that they are weakened, while I can pretend to be a good ally by weakening their enemy, all the while strengthening myself.

Seems like the computer are also hardcoded to ally against you, when they normally would be mortal enemies. Case in point, if I am Seleucia, then Parthia, Egypt, Pontus, and Armenia all attack quickly, even allying amongst themselves. If I am somebody else, say Rome, those guys all go to war quickly with each other, with Egypt almost always prevailing. I have seen Pontus take Egypt pretty much out, and even get all the way to Carthage. Only saw that once.

[weejonnie]

With cities, I usually destroy anything I don't need, replace the temple (if possible that turn - if not as soon as the public order can stand it.) and build-over anything I can. I can withstand an immediate loss of (extra income) for long-term security.

One problem with Numidia is that the secret police/ execution square system is only giving 5% bonus for law, whereas in the Parthia campaign it was giving 5% + 5% for each level.

Anyway - at the moment I am recruiting peasants like no tomorrow and moving the better troops out of garrison duty. If Spain invades Tingi then I am in trouble, otherwise it is a win-win (cheaper recruiting an release of better troops.) - Having taken Caralis, I now have half a dozen Julii fleets parked in front of it (nowhere near the docs) - funny waste of resources.

Still holding back Pontus - haven't worked out best mix yet, but think a few archers/ numidian missile cavalry would be better than long-shield cavalry/ camel cavalry. (Obviously use legionaries to set up the infantry line)