Modding extras by CA (unsupported)

[SigniferOne]

The ability to parse descr_skeleton.txt is simply invaluable, because not only will we be able to give units the ability to hit from further back, as you said, but we can also define which frame in the attack anim actually is the attack frame, so that the defender's animation can run synchroniously, not wildly irrelevantly like it does now (you attack, the guy ducks like 10 seconds later, etc).

Jerome, the biggest problem right now is the crash without the error message. That may be the best clue as to what is going wrong here, and you knowing that we have such an error might be a hint as to where to look for a solution. Would NOT having a matching .evt for a .cas cause such a crash, or would an error pop up? I really hope you can get your hands on the same build as us, so that you can at least get this parsing ability by the time the x-pak comes out, because you devs will see some amazing wonders from us in that case. Please try to find the same build as what we're using, so you can run through your steps and verify that you get the same nameless error as we do, so that you know that the error does not lie in some wrong step of ours, and are more able to pin down the issue on your side in time for the release. Or, if it is a mistake on our side after all, this would be the very BEST case scenario, and we can enjoy the wonderful ability to parse descr_skeleton.txt right away

[SigniferOne]

Jerome, here's the deal: I just tried a vanilla version of everything, unpacked the CAS files and the EVT files. Here are the entire contents of my descr_skeleton.txt:

type strat_named_with_army
scale 0.7
anim idle_1 data/animations/SG 01 idle 01.cas
-evt:data\animations\strat_named_with_army__SG 01 idle 01.evt

And the game crashes within seconds of showing the loading screen.


EDIT: Another test. Here are the new ENTIRE contents of my descr_skeleton.txt:

type strat_named_with_army
scale 0.7
anim idle_1 data/animations/SG 01 idle 01.cas

I removed all references even to the EVT files, just the CAS itself. Again, same results, crash immediately upon showing the loading screen; in other words, the game doesn't get far enough to tell me that there are other skeletons lacking, it crashes immediately upon finding that one valid animation entry.

[JeromeGrasdyke]

Ok, I've finally found a moment to get back to this. My sincere apologies that it's taken so long, but getting new projects off the ground is a very time-consuming business as I'm called upon to contribute to the business, technical and design parts of it all at the same time.

So, I've installed a vanilla copy of Rome, then applied BI to bring it up to version 1.3 / 1.4, deleted the animation pack files, and added in all the .cas and .evt files referenced by the game. It took a little while, but it was worth it... In short, it works as it should -- it loads and runs correctly, without crashing or other strange behaviour. And it even gives error messages for missing .cas files... now, that leaves a couple of possible explanations for the behaviour you guys have seen:

1) some small change in 1.3/1.4 has caused this to suddenly work (unlikely but possible)
2) the unpacking tool generates faulty .cas files which cause the game to crash before an error message is generated (probable)

I've even double-checked by archiving the .cas and .evt files, then deleting the contents of the directory, and then repopulating it from the archives -- there is nothing funny going on, and no further information is needed.

I've also uploaded a new .evt archive which is up to date with BI, in the same place as before. I would upload the .cas archive as well, but it would have to be cleared with legal, and at 10 mb it is some ways beyond the size limit.

[JeromeGrasdyke]

The archive is called evt_files_bi.zip, if you are having trouble finding it...

[The samnite]

It's in /patrons/lm/Modding? I only see the original one there...

[asilv]

It's in /patrons/lm/Modding? I only see the original one there...

It in http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Rt...ads/RTWupload/ directory.

evt_files_bi.zip

[The samnite]

Thanks!

[Vercingetorix]

I've also uploaded a new .evt archive which is up to date with BI, in the same place as before. I would upload the .cas archive as well, but it would have to be cleared with legal, and at 10 mb it is some ways beyond the size limit.

If at all possible this would be much appreciated! One problem that may be causing the CTD is that there are several files in pack.idx/dat that have the same exact filename/path but are not the same file. The only difference is that they have different scale values. So on extraction they get de-scaled and on packing the get re-scaled, so you have the original animations when packed but not unpacked. On the other hand that would just cause some graphical oddities and shouldn't be reason for a CTD. If we could get those .cas files that would be most excellent.

[JeromeGrasdyke]

The .evt files contain sound event markers linked to various animation frames.

There are some fairly subtle game balancing facts involved with the animations, which i should probably mention. For example there is only one attack per animation, so the length of the attack animation determines attack frequency for that troop type. The attack delay values in export_descr_unit.txt are used to balance this, so that it doesn't become too restrictive for artists.

About the scaling... generally things with the same name are referring to *one* file on disk which is getting rescaled at load time by the amount stated. The requested scaling factor is stated in the animations text file, and is preserved so that the memory-saving device which maps loaded animations into skeletons can distinguish between identical animations at different scales.

The other thing to beware of is named nodes. The animation system looks for a number of named nodes in animations, namely these ... bone_H_Saddle, bone_camel_root, bone_E_platform, bone_wheel, bone_Lhand, bone_Rhand ... for marking a number of things in animations. Saddle and camel root should be self-explanatory - this is where the riders are attached, wheel and platform are used for siege engine animations, and the hand bones are used for various display things such as the pikes. These things not being present might well be at the root of the problem, and I imagine it wont be easy to reconstruct all the data in .cas form from the animations database.

I'll look into making the .cas archive available... it would almost certainly need some sort of EULA though, so it may take some time and the powers-that-be may decide it's not worth the effort.

[wlesmana]

Crashes while starting up with no error message.
I guess I'm stuck with it just like everyone else.

[SigniferOne]

Oh Jerome, if you could do that, that would be SO WONDERFUL! :) :)

Here's the thing, while like you said the CAS files extracted with Verc's program may indeed be somehow incompatible with the game, thus causing the crash, when they are packed into the archive -- again using Verc's program -- they work properly! That is how we've been able to modify animations using Verc's programs -- the stuff works! It's just that it doesn't work when not packed...

So, a couple of issues: if you could make the CAS files available, that would of course be really wonderful, because one of the things it could possibly do would be to help Verc isolate the differences between the CAS files his script produces and the originals.

However, here's a better solution: would it be at all possible to release the native CA CAS tool? You could release that entirely without support, and thus not bother the powers-that-be too much, and yet really help out the modding community! :)

[Private Clark]

Hey guys, i'm new here. Thanks for the files man.

[xerex]

I guess this is the thread to watch if you want to change the impact frame for animations. I guess everyone is still waiting to see if V's .cas files are somehow different from the ones the game wants when it reads descr_skeleton.txt.

I did the same tests as everyone else with v1.5 and got the same results, so I think that rules out the possibility of a change from 1.2 to 1.3 making it work. If it finds a .cas file, it dies.

PLEASE make those available (or at least just one so V can figure out what the diff is). Making mumakil behave correctly means changing the impact frame of the elephant animations! and we want well behaved mumakil dangit!

[xerex]

shameless bump.

I don't want you to think we stopped caring about getting at least one original .CAS file so that we can do things with animations. Just give us one original and I am sure Vercingetorix (or somebody else) will figure out how to parse it out of the pack file such that reading skeletons.txt won't crash the game.