Army Lists

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I was reading through your lists and looking at the The Band of the Red Hand, I was wondering, shouldn't their be lots of Band units.

Band Heavy Cavelry

Band Light Cavelry

Band Pikemen

Band Billmen

Band Band Archers/Crossbows.

Mat created a flexible and balanced force with high morale and high dicipline. Surely the game should reflect this.

I know it overbalances things a bit but you could double the training time and make the support costs high, because they're all so well payed, so that you could only ever afford one Band stack.

Just a thought.

[Andreas]

Uhm the band of the red hand isn't elite units, they are normal troops with a good general. You will ahve to rely on the common troops... We might be able to give them band uniforms(? to the rest of the team). And to PotD has enough units as it is;)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I didn't say they were elite, per se. I said they were highly trained and diciplined, which they were. Matt broke down the idea of loyalty to a noble and created cohesive units. Hell, before he came along they didn't even have numbers. I take your point though. So here's a better question:

What exactly are the Band?

[Andreas]

The Band will come in two parts, cavalry and foot. The foot will be pikes, with higher discipline, training and maybe better attack then others. Tha cavalry will be like mounted nobles, buit mroe disciplined I assume.

And highly trained and diciplined... that i what I call elite...

And IMO, what mat did was that he united armies of different nations, and used their qualties in a way they fitted... But that is just me... Remember that they still say that they "belong" to different nobles. Mat is waht unite them.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Actually Matt did a lot to brake down barrieres between units. Remember he mixed Andoran, Tairan and Carhairan together in one unit so that they would all work together. They might still have identified with their unit leaders but what Matt tried to do was break down petty loyalties. The difference between a feudal host and a proffesional army.

Thanks for answering my question though. Band Foot and Band Mounted is fine by me.

[Steppe Merc]

But how could you just put one unit as foot? Because he always used pikemen and archers and crossbowmen together, if I rember correctly. Of course, I suppose normal crossbow/archers would work well enough....
Not that I have any say in the matter, just trying to be helpful.
And I got the impression that most of the Boderlanders who used bows also were very good lancers as well as swordsmen. They seemed less like Mongol horse archers and more like Byzantine, more static sort of horse archery.\
And for some of the Aiel, I'd suggest a combo spear/bow sort of thing.

[Andreas]

All of thay is what we have, all aiel are armed with spears, Shienaran bows are good swordsmen. Normal archers will have to do for the band, we cannot have too many units for the PotD... We already have a lot of them. And maybe all common infantry might have Band uniforms....

[SMZ]

As far as what to do with your two remaining Aiel units - the Dawn Runners could have a special ability whereby they gain a speed burst for a short time (Sprint) - thereby making them slightly faster than normal cavalry units - although fast cavalry should still outrace them - if they were essentially skirmishers with a hefty bonus vs cavalry this could make them a tactical unit...

the Knife Hands should have an animation with no weapon ideally other than maybe one pila - afterwhich they should have the special attack ability like chariots - so that they knock enemies down and disrupt formations but limit the lethality so that they don't cause many casualities

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commenting on a few other things I saw in this thread - the person who posted that Aes Sedai should have a high shield bonus but no armor or defense skill - that seemed like a good solution. So if they were prepared they would be difficult to injure but if the attack came from an unexpected direction or they were overwhelmed then they would fall quickly...

Aes Sedai should have Warders. 1. It's absurd to think that many sisters would go to a battle without one. 2. It's essential to limit the number of Aes Sedai in a unit. I'm pretty sure the game has a hardcoded mininum of 6 persons per unit. Six Aes Sedai together could destroy entire armies. The best number is certainly to have only two or three. If you give each sister one or two warders and make the sister the handler then this keeps the numbers more balanced. Since Greens are the "Battle Ajah" and regularly take more than one Warder I think this sets a good precedent to give each sister two warders and thus you would only have two sisters from a unit. And while they'll still able to make a huge impact on a battle, they are capable of being dealt with by crafty strategy. This also will help to keep a player from assigning three or four groups of weavers to one army. With only two persons being controlled in each unit a player who did this would lose four potential army slots for eight soldiers. An opposing player who filled those slots with calvary units would have an extra couple hundred men. Enough to overrun said weavers and slaughter them thereby redering the first players huge investment useless. So players would only keep one or two weaving units in an army and use them in a supporting role instead of as the bulk of a force.

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As regards the Aiel superiority this should be kept. As in EB I don't think you should nerf a faction to make things "more balanced". There is more to fighting wars than just having the best individual fighters. Economics plays a large role and the Aiel Wasteland is neccesarily not exactly a luxerious place. Additionally their proximity to the Dark One's forces means they will have to bear the brunt of an attack while more southern nations can prepare. Finally the Aiel are split into many clans and it is only when they are united in at least thought that they can act. A Aiel clan who went to war by themselves could find that rival clans attempt to strike while they are weakened. Thus in Lamen's War while only 4 clans went to war the others supported the decision and so the War could be put into action.

[Steppe Merc]

Good point about the Aiel. I also agree, they shouldn't be balanced. Though I think that the Aiel did control a lot of the trade going on, which would be a lot of money making oppurtonities.

[Myrddraal]

SMZ, special abilities are hardcoded.

[SMZ]

oh... *wipes egg off face*

[aleh]

Only 3 units for Illian? Hehe, as an Illianer die-hard, I gotta help with that.

Alright, so I assume it's widely accepted that Illian is basically Greece and the like. After all the Illianer Companions are exactly, if I remember right, like Alexander's Companions. So right there, their moral/discipline/elite/armor, after all they've turned the battle many times in Randland, should be off the scale. Now, they also have armies a bit of heavy horses. So right there.

Also, if I remember correctly, Alexander had an elite unit of foot soldiers called the Hypaspits, who also were elite, very disciplined, and very good. So, might give Illian an unit like that.

Also, might make an Agrianian-type unit who're light, crack javelliners. Alexander made heavy use of them.

Also, the Macedonian infantry was very versatile if I remember well.

Also, since the Council often fought for power with the King, in a totally peaceful way, it'd be unthinkable for them not to have several units that match the power, skill and prestige of those that are for the king.

[Arafelian1]

I think that the Knife Hands should be a type of Assasin,
And the Dawn Runners could just be faster than everyone else???

[Trifle]

Not sure if it has been brought up, didnt check all posts but wouldnt aes sedai three oaths wouldnt stop them from weaving stuff unless in melee combat? not to mention the ashaman slaughtering armies without blinking an eye.

aiel shold be like forester warbands. bow, spear, hide everywhere, maybe etw style moving while hidden, perhaps unlim stamina? and trollocs too with unlim stamina with no discipline so they attack as soon as they can the enemy. would it be possible to add a berserker like guy (myrdraal) to the trolloc band so if myrdraal dies trollocs die? or atleast weaken a lot.

What about athan'amiere something? Like them being a faction or having some 1337 mercenary ships that join the dragon after some certain event?

Gholam?

out of ideas for now =)

[Ludens]

Hello Trifle, welcome to the .Org .

I fear, though, that the Wheel of Time project has long been abandoned. You can find alternative mods in the RTW mod and hosted mod sections.

[Trifle]

Oh should have checked the date. a shame it got abandoned :/

Thanks for the welcome =)

[darkraven49]

regarding the aiel o think they should be mostly skirmish units weak to bow/crossbow fire when in the open.
they could have the ability to hide almost anywhere and so the basic aiel tactics would be a harass/ambush type strategy.

they would have strong spear units no swordsmen(duh) and normal archery units no cavalry though.

they would also be weak to heavy cavalry if they were charged but as i said, skirmish units with great stealth.

[Ludens]

I am sorry to disappoint you, darkraven, but this project is dead. No new threads have been started since 2007. There appears to have been an alpha release, though I don't know if the download links still work.