Army Lists

The Band will come in two parts, cavalry and foot. The foot will be pikes, with higher discipline, training and maybe better attack then others. Tha cavalry will be like mounted nobles, buit mroe disciplined I assume.

And highly trained and diciplined... that i what I call elite...

And IMO, what mat did was that he united armies of different nations, and used their qualties in a way they fitted... But that is just me... Remember that they still say that they "belong" to different nobles. Mat is waht unite them.

Actually Matt did a lot to brake down barrieres between units. Remember he mixed Andoran, Tairan and Carhairan together in one unit so that they would all work together. They might still have identified with their unit leaders but what Matt tried to do was break down petty loyalties. The difference between a feudal host and a proffesional army.

Thanks for answering my question though. Band Foot and Band Mounted is fine by me.

But how could you just put one unit as foot? Because he always used pikemen and archers and crossbowmen together, if I rember correctly. Of course, I suppose normal crossbow/archers would work well enough....
Not that I have any say in the matter, just trying to be helpful.
And I got the impression that most of the Boderlanders who used bows also were very good lancers as well as swordsmen. They seemed less like Mongol horse archers and more like Byzantine, more static sort of horse archery.\
And for some of the Aiel, I'd suggest a combo spear/bow sort of thing.

All of thay is what we have, all aiel are armed with spears, Shienaran bows are good swordsmen. Normal archers will have to do for the band, we cannot have too many units for the PotD... We already have a lot of them. And maybe all common infantry might have Band uniforms....

In RTW, is it possible to do hiding units like in MTW and in STW? Perhaps one or two of the Aiel could be good at hiding and ambushing... Mabye all can hide in tall grass (I believe that's a skill of some sort), while one or two can always disapear?

About the Aes Sedai, perhaps you could make them like generals? One Aes Sedai in a unit, with one or two Warders as bodyguards? Not sure if it's possible, however for that sort of unit to be recruitable and always have a "general" unit...

The probelm with the Aeil is that in order to be accurate to the books they have to own everything.

Which sucks if your not Rand Al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn, Lord of the Morning, The Prince of Dawn...etc, etc.

Probably a little difference from the books for game balance will be needed.

But the Aiel arn't invincible. They got little or no armour with small shield. Thus both cavallery charged and missile fire would be quite good against them. And both longbows and crossbows outrange the Aiel's shorter bows.

Eh, no the bows wouldn't be outranged just because they're shorter. They seem like composite bows, which were superior to longbows and crossbows (if you make em properly).
Horn and sinew compress better than wood, and that is almost certaintly what they made them off (since their desert would be as devoid of wood as the steppe warrior's who perfected the composite bow.)

But I think that the Borderlanders would be able to beat them, evauntaully. You have your horse archers incircle them, firing. They would take casualties, but then you charge with your heavy horse. Once the Aiel move foward to take those heavy horse, you take them from behind with fresh heavy horse.
I believe that is what the essential tactic was in New Spring, at the begging with Lan.

If you were Mat, and you could try and have pikes incircle your bows and crossbows, and have them duke it out, but they would take heavy casaulties from trading arrow fire, and the Aiel might not be stupid enough to charge, or be held while flanked. (Also I think a tactic used against the Shaido, if memory serves).

As far as what to do with your two remaining Aiel units - the Dawn Runners could have a special ability whereby they gain a speed burst for a short time (Sprint) - thereby making them slightly faster than normal cavalry units - although fast cavalry should still outrace them - if they were essentially skirmishers with a hefty bonus vs cavalry this could make them a tactical unit...

the Knife Hands should have an animation with no weapon ideally other than maybe one pila - afterwhich they should have the special attack ability like chariots - so that they knock enemies down and disrupt formations but limit the lethality so that they don't cause many casualities

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commenting on a few other things I saw in this thread - the person who posted that Aes Sedai should have a high shield bonus but no armor or defense skill - that seemed like a good solution. So if they were prepared they would be difficult to injure but if the attack came from an unexpected direction or they were overwhelmed then they would fall quickly...

Aes Sedai should have Warders. 1. It's absurd to think that many sisters would go to a battle without one. 2. It's essential to limit the number of Aes Sedai in a unit. I'm pretty sure the game has a hardcoded mininum of 6 persons per unit. Six Aes Sedai together could destroy entire armies. The best number is certainly to have only two or three. If you give each sister one or two warders and make the sister the handler then this keeps the numbers more balanced. Since Greens are the "Battle Ajah" and regularly take more than one Warder I think this sets a good precedent to give each sister two warders and thus you would only have two sisters from a unit. And while they'll still able to make a huge impact on a battle, they are capable of being dealt with by crafty strategy. This also will help to keep a player from assigning three or four groups of weavers to one army. With only two persons being controlled in each unit a player who did this would lose four potential army slots for eight soldiers. An opposing player who filled those slots with calvary units would have an extra couple hundred men. Enough to overrun said weavers and slaughter them thereby redering the first players huge investment useless. So players would only keep one or two weaving units in an army and use them in a supporting role instead of as the bulk of a force.

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As regards the Aiel superiority this should be kept. As in EB I don't think you should nerf a faction to make things "more balanced". There is more to fighting wars than just having the best individual fighters. Economics plays a large role and the Aiel Wasteland is neccesarily not exactly a luxerious place. Additionally their proximity to the Dark One's forces means they will have to bear the brunt of an attack while more southern nations can prepare. Finally the Aiel are split into many clans and it is only when they are united in at least thought that they can act. A Aiel clan who went to war by themselves could find that rival clans attempt to strike while they are weakened. Thus in Lamen's War while only 4 clans went to war the others supported the decision and so the War could be put into action.

Good point about the Aiel. I also agree, they shouldn't be balanced. Though I think that the Aiel did control a lot of the trade going on, which would be a lot of money making oppurtonities.

SMZ, special abilities are hardcoded.

oh... *wipes egg off face*

Found this passage while rereading Lord of Chaos
page 37, about the younglings "He had grouped them in clusters of five swordsmen afoot, with bowmen fifty paces back up the hill. Fifty more waited with lance and horse on the crest /---/ In spite of the heat they wore their green cloaks so that Gawyn's white charging boar showed, embroidered on the breast"
Three different units of younglings perhaps? one lancer cav, one foot swordsman and one foot archer.

I got the impression that most of the swordsmen were just cavalry that had lost their horses. But then again, I could be wrong since they were training as Warders.

Those are all Younglings, but he needed some afot and some as archers so they took those positions, they are all swordsmen.

I'm wondering would you be able to ajust this mod to that expansion for RTW because it is sopoused to bring some nice options, like ability for barbaraians to pack up their setlements and change location which wlold fit Aiel nicely.
At least it is waht was promised.

Yes we will. The demo will probably be released before then (or at least I hope so) But the final version will be for BI

ahh good. I was afraid of bugg of answer

Ah, damn, I might have to get BI then...

I think it will be worth it.

Only 3 units for Illian? Hehe, as an Illianer die-hard, I gotta help with that.

Alright, so I assume it's widely accepted that Illian is basically Greece and the like. After all the Illianer Companions are exactly, if I remember right, like Alexander's Companions. So right there, their moral/discipline/elite/armor, after all they've turned the battle many times in Randland, should be off the scale. Now, they also have armies a bit of heavy horses. So right there.

Also, if I remember correctly, Alexander had an elite unit of foot soldiers called the Hypaspits, who also were elite, very disciplined, and very good. So, might give Illian an unit like that.

Also, might make an Agrianian-type unit who're light, crack javelliners. Alexander made heavy use of them.

Also, the Macedonian infantry was very versatile if I remember well.

Also, since the Council often fought for power with the King, in a totally peaceful way, it'd be unthinkable for them not to have several units that match the power, skill and prestige of those that are for the king.

As an addendum to my last message. Personally, I think the Council's Bodyguards should be expert swordsmen/axemen or something like that, after all, the Council is always competing with the King, eh?

The Illian's Assemblage's forces should be a bit like the Genoese sailors, good archers, and half-decent/decent fighters(perhaps a spear, or something). Cause the Assemblage is made up of the richest merchants and most succesfful sea-traders, so like I'd assume archers would be a definite bonus against the river brigands.

If I remember correctly, Ghealdan had good mines and all, and eventually since they'd discover powders and all. Perhaps to make the units more fair in all the nations, give them some sort of Naphta Throwers-type unit?

Oh, and definately give the Taraboners Naphta Throwers and perhaps some sort of canon-type unit, since they have the best(and perhaps biggest) Illuminators chapters.

Also, if I remember well, the Murandians were involved in quite a few border raids/battles/wars with Andor, so perhaps give them a Raiders unit. Light Cavalry, good/great attack, great/irrisistable charge, but they can't do well in a protracted fight as they are more hit-and-run fighters. Also perhaps give them a foot version of that, since Lugard is a heavy trading center, I'd assume there'd be plenty of bandits around. Lightly armoured-if even that-, but great attack, good charge, SUCK in protracted fights.

Why does Kandor have chariots? If I remember correctly, the only people who should have chariots are the Seanchan, because Tuon's personal banner has a chariot(war-cart) pulled by lions. If even that. Also, give Kandor some sort of Merchant Guard-type unit. They are elite(borderlandsers), but come in very small numbers.

The men of Arad Doman have quite short tempers (poor fellas :D), so perhaps give some of their better unit the 'Impetuous' trait? And what exactly is 'Order of the Council', what council, that of the Merchants? Personally, the Domani reminded me of Hindu people and so on, so perhaps give them scythed chariots.



Also, will the game be on RTW or MTW?

It is for rome, and as for your points:
Illian will have more then three units, the army lists aren't up to date. I might change some in them later. No throwers, the illuminators are the only ones that can handle it, and they do not fight with it.

There will be no chariots(you realize that you say that only senachan should have them, and then you say AD should?) Anyway, there will be no chariots.

And order os the coucil is the merchants council, yes.

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Yes we will. The demo will probably be released before then (or at least I hope so) But the final version will be for BI

fantastic.

Looks cool guys!

There will are Forsaken?

There will in Rand-Era, but not in the Early Era.

ok

This confused the hell out of me. Like the pirate and the wheel... yarrr! its drivin me nuts! btw, whats the difference ingame between a band and a fist? What will trolloc units be like? Will they be like War Dogs and have trollocs as the bulk rampager with myrddraal hanging back? and why the intermixing? Just some basic questions.

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Andreas: Edited Domani army-lists (18-03-2005)

[/font][/color]The Shadow - Shayol Ghul

Myrddraal
Dha'vol Band
Dhai'mon Band
Ko'bal Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dha'vol Fist
Dhai'mon Fist
Ko'bal Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Dha'vol Clan

Myrddraal
Dha'vol Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dha'vol Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Dha'vol

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Ko'bal Clan

Myrddraal
Ko'bal Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Ko'bal Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Ko'bal

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

The Shadow - Dhai'mon Clan

Myrddraal
Dhai'mon Band
Ahf'frait Band
Kno'mon Band
Dhai'mon Fist
Ahf'frait Fist
Kno'mon Fist
Armoured Dhai'mon

Creatures of the Blight
Darkhounds
Darkfriend Militia
Darkfriend Archers
Darkfriend Riders
Darksworn Champions
Dreadlords

Aiel

Clan Chiefs Guard
Red Shields(Light Infantry)
Thunder Walkers(Heavy Infantry)
Far Dareis Mai(Light Aiel - like scouts)
Stone Dogs(Medium Infantry)
Water Seekers(Light Skirmishers)
True Bloods(Archers)
Brothers of the Eagle(Heavy Skirmishers)
Night Spears(Maybe like Night Raiders with a frighten enemy option?)
Black Eyes(Heavy Archers)
(No idea what to do with the two left...Maybe an elite aiel unit?)
Dawn Runners
Knife Hands

People of the Dragon (These include the Aiel and Tairens in the Rand era)

Asha'man (Mounted & Dismounted)
Wise Ones-(Rand era, never fought before dumai wells)
Legion of the Dragon (Heavy Crossbowmen with good swords fighting skills also)
Band of the Red Hand

If I may be so bold: Your using the Roman "Houses" dynamic here, so why not give the Fantastic 4 the factions? Sammael, Rahvin, Be'lal, and Demandred? Actually, though Rahvin was an adiquate general, he's not top forsaken... Ishy is. Why not make ishies faction number 1? If I may be bolder:

Ishimael Faction a higher number of Channeling Darkfriend options to denote a greater station among the Chosen.
Demandred Faction the bulk of the mounted Darkfriend options, give Sammael a special assassin Character (Though, I'm pretty sure that was labled "not possible")
Be'lal Faction "twisted" units. I'm thinking simply adding some black to Tear, Illian and Mayener elite units (asside from tear, with nothing but arbitrary reasons)
Sammael: Better close combat units, but fewer of them. Maybe an elite unit. Arbitrary idea that.

On Cavalry: Robert Jordan's cavalry all sound like they are cut from the same mold real cavalry were: Lance first, Sword once it breaks... the logic is simple, swords have a hard time reaching men affoot, and without great aim or a lucky hit, nearly worthless against a dehorsed armored foe, thus the lance gave a thrusting ability to penetrate the armor, as well as impact value on the charge.

Band of the Red Hand: I know, I know... thou shalt not trust in the Guide to WOT... but damnit, it says Mat wants more archers... 4-1 or 3-1!

The band has it's own topic, and the player will decide how many archers he have... The roman houses are cut away now, we will not use that line-up, only one sahdow faction, mainly trollocs.

And most of his cavalry are mounted archers, really.