Play 1.2 or go back to 1.0?

[SpencerH]

Suppose one was feeling masochistic and wanted to play RTW a little more. Both versions have small bugs and their are fixes for some but IMO 1.2 is fatally flawed by the siege bug (the weakness of the tactical AI is irrelevant if the AI cant conquer other cities).

So my question is whether it is worth our while to go back to vanilla and add some mods/fixes or not?

[hrvojej]

To be honest, I think the best thing right now would be to play 1.2 with no walls as Pode suggested. That's how I would do it the next time I get around playing this game, provided no other fixes are issued/found. Sad but true.

[Proletariat]

So my question is whether it is worth our while to go back to vanilla and add some mods/fixes or not?

I say no. The pri/sec bug from 1.0 is just as bad. I'm considering trying out M:TW.

[SpencerH]

To be honest, I think the best thing right now would be to play 1.2 with no walls as Pode suggested. That's how I would do it the next time I get around playing this game, provided no other fixes are issued/found. Sad but true.

I've thought about that too. It will change the game drastically but then again, so what! RTW is already a drastic departure from the past games with welcome and unwelcome changes.

[SpencerH]

I say no. The pri/sec bug from 1.0 is just as bad. I'm considering trying out M:TW.

Could you refresh my memory, the pri/sec bug?

If you haven't played MTW, then rush out right now and get VI (and patches). You'll have months and months of great campaigns (with lesser quality graphics). By the time you're finished with it RTW might work properly.

[demon rob]

and after playing VI load the wesmod.

my feeling is its worth waiting for 1.3, or 1.2 with autocalc and long game sessions, or without walls. 1.0/1.1 really was too betaish.

I was quite enjoying my 1.2 campaign until I realised its meaningless. Damn. Guess I'll still finish it as long as I dont play in short bursts.

Actually I'm getting the feeling that 1.2 is even more meaningless, About 220bc and there are no ships anyware. Guess this could be part of the multi-turn siege bug. I've got some small fleets (scipio), julii have 1 or 2, and there are NO others. Just downloaded the demos for settlers5 and hearts of iron2 so might try them instead of Rome.

[Red Harvest]

pri/sec bug caused missile units to receive their missile attack stats for *melee* combat. This gave +4 for all of the pila bearing units for instance. It was quite a boost for Rome.

The pri/sec, friendly fire, disasters, and navy issues are the main reasons to go to 1.2. I also prefer the more spookable elephants and the ability to use skirmishers (the latter because of the FF fix.) The HA bug can be fixed. And according to those testing it, the reload siege bug has always been present. Traits have probably always been bugged to some extent, the difference now is that the scarred trait is more readily apparent.

[Proletariat]

Right, what he said about pri/sec.

Hm, I'm definately going to check out M:TW now, thanks.

[Jay Tee]

I'm thinking about looking into MTW as well. Can anyone who knows both of the games make a small list with all the major pros and cons for the two games?

[Mikeus Caesar]

I finally understand the pri/sec bug now. No wonder my elite gold chevron spartans were always getting their arses kicked by praetorians.

[jerby]

what is the siege bug?

[SpencerH]

pri/sec bug caused missile units to receive their missile attack stats for *melee* combat. This gave +4 for all of the pila bearing units for instance. It was quite a boost for Rome.

Ah! The primary/secondary weapon bug. Yes, it is a big boost for Rome.

The pri/sec, friendly fire, disasters, and navy issues are the main reasons to go to 1.2. I also prefer the more spookable elephants and the ability to use skirmishers (the latter because of the FF fix.) The HA bug can be fixed. And according to those testing it, the reload siege bug has always been present. Traits have probably always been bugged to some extent, the difference now is that the scarred trait is more readily apparent.

I dunno, the bugs with 1.0 werent game breakers for me since I never saw any evidence of the seige bug (I never patched to 1.1). I fought and defended against seiges most turns despite saving, stopping, and restarting. The 1.0 bugs were very annoying but at least there was a game. My 1.2 campaign may be less annoying but very little has happened. In essence, there is no game.

[The Stranger]

i just quit playing RTW, tried RTR 5.2 for a minute, in three turns 3 CTD all for different reasons, it simply sucked.

[SpencerH]

what is the siege bug?

The reload seige bug is in 1.2 and 1.1 (I played 2 1/2 long campaigns with 1.0 and didnt see it). Essentially, what has been observed is that when you reload a saved game the AI abandons any seiges it has ongoing. It is believed (very likely IMO) that there are many other effects on gameplay such as building/unit construction and diplomacy. If you play a few turns then stop and restart later (as most do) the game becomes stagnant since the AI will continuously abondon whatever it's doing.

[Count Belisarius]

I'm thinking about looking into MTW as well. Can anyone who knows both of the games make a small list with all the major pros and cons for the two games?

Asking this question 10 times of 10 different people will yield 10 different answers, but here goes just SOME of the pros/cons of each game IMHO (you undoubtedly will notice that MTW/VI 'pros' are often RTW 'cons' and vice versa):

MTW/VI Pros:

Better AI (because of less complexity?).
WAY fewer bugs once you download the patches.
The game is divided into three epochs, in which each civilization has a unique set of units and buildings. Warning: like the Marian Reforms in RTW, some of your best units may become unavailable for retraining when the epochs change.
Extinct factions re-emerge periodically.
BERSERKERS a.k.a. "Bandsaws" for the way they chew through elite enemy armored units (VI only, but by far my favorite unit).
The distinct possibility of civil war breaking out in your own faction.
Simpler interface: you just pick up an army icon, shaped like a chess piece, and drop him onto enemy territory, and a battle will ensue.
The ability to tear down fortifications when you take a province. Hello? Carthage after the 3rd Punic War?
The ability of spies to be KILLED when they are caught.
Avalanche-like heavy cavalry, if you're into that sort of thing.

MTS/VI Cons:

Simplistic and inconsistent diplomacy.
Relatively crude graphics.
The ever-present, ever-maddening, impossible-to-eradicate Papal Faction: we hates them, precious.
Lack of realism and lack of emphasis regarding naval power.
The simplistic, though realistic, role of religion in the game.

RTW Pros:

Excellent Graphics.
Elephants.
Complex diplomacy.
Increased importance of trade and sea power, and the ability to conduct trade without constructing an expensive, time-intensive, and fragile chain of warships.
Religion: each faction has its own pantheon, and the benefits religious buildings confer add a great flavor to the game.

RTW Cons:

Bugs, bugs, and MORE BUGS!!!!
Strategic map unit movement. Some STW/MI and MTW/VI purists complain about the departure from the chess-piece strategic interface in favor of the "Heroes of Might and Magic"-type unit movement on the RTW strategic map. Personally, I don't care that much, and it does add an additional element of complexity.
Spies who won't DIE when the get caught. Playing as Macedon, I had a plague-infested spy re-infect my capital THREE TIMES!!! The plague did what the Greeks, the Brutii, the Thracians could not accomplish: I finally gave up.

I am sure that other members will be able to come up with a much longer list, especially for the cons of RTW. Me personally, I consider RTW a work in progress, with all its shortcomings, and I will continue to play, trusting in the designers to get it right with the expansion and subsequent patches. I'm not savvy enough to mod, but from what I understand, there are some great mods out there if you don't like RTW as it exists.

[Sas_Legion]

there are some great mods out there if you don't like RTW as it exists.

can you give some links to get some of them .

[Count Belisarius]

can you give some links to get some of them .

Like I said, I'm not too savvy about modding, but there are any number of modding sub-forums on the Org website.

One of the most popular mods is RTR (Rome Total Realism), which has its own website: www.rometotalrealism.com.

[katank]

Spies can die when they fail to enter a city. When they are revealed, send an assasin to whack them.

[phred]

Like I said, I'm not too savvy about modding, but there are any number of modding sub-forums on the Org website.

One of the most popular mods is RTR (Rome Total Realism), which has its own website: www.rometotalrealism.com.

The Total Realism mod is a lot of fun. I've been playing the newest version (5.3, I think) as the Romans and I haven't had any crashes. For me it's been far more enjoyable than vanilla RTW.

[Simetrical]

Aside: RTR 5.2 was more or less an unannounced public beta. 5.3 has fixed almost all the crash bugs, with only one repeatable one that has us totally stumped (but it only affects, according to a forum poll, around 12% of players, and while that number is extremely dubious, it's certain that the bug almost never comes up for the same player twice).

-Simetrical

[Ciciocle]

i just quit playing RTW, tried RTR 5.2 for a minute, in three turns 3 CTD all for different reasons, it simply sucked.

what is CTD? crash to desktop? and i thought it happend because the viruses in my pc

[Browning]

what is CTD? crash to desktop? and i thought it happend because the viruses in my pc

Yep, Crash To Desktop

[SpencerH]

I should have set up a poll.

So far, just glancing at the thread, it looks as if most say dont go back to 1.0 and of those the votes most say either abandon RTW until its fixed or mod 1.2 to a semi workable condition.

[Old Celt]

I don't think too many people would argue that 1.2 has many improvements over 1.0 and 1.1. I found out about the siege bug on this forum because I never shut the game down. I let it run in the background while the computer sleeps if I'm not playing. Why is that such a big deal? I understand what will happen if I reload, so try to keep them to a minimum. Who wants to go back to a 2D gaming world? Just as people who want a better AI won't play RTW over MTW, I want 3D, and won't go back to 2D. Both positions are defensible. CA or ActiVision will fix the problem sooner or later.

[Browning]

(...) Why is that such a big deal? (... The abandon-siege bug ...).

Perhaps because not everybody can afford blocking his computer 24h/day?

Don't you see that if saving/loading feature is broken, then the whole product is broken?