Odd behavior for phalanx...

**Kraxis** · 03-09-2005, 11:43

Well not the phalanx itself, but it is part of it.

I have been playing merryly along with the Seleucids. Now that I have sent the Egyptians home to Egypt, the Parthians are a shadow of their former self, Pontus is wiped out and Armenia is hemmed in on all sides, I desided to deal with the innumerable Rebels sitting around in my lands. I did well can crushed most of them. But I noticed something interesting when I sent my Militia Hoplites against those pesky Eastern Infantry.

The approach was fine, the line up was fine, but the charge was odd.
My Mil Hops advanced slowly as usually while the Eastern Infantry charged headlong into the spearpoints. The unusual part was that Eastern Infantry, on impact, did that little jumping animation to give a powerful blow. Not all of course but some. That looked rather odd, but what was even more odd was the fact that 3-4 Mil Hops fell to the ground, despite having been protected by the spears... I was baffled. How could that happen? There was never any Eastern Infantry inside the spears yet after the fights there were usually about 4-5 dead Mil Hops, a few on the flanks but also a few in the frontlines in the middle.

How is that possible? The Eastern Infantry have much shorter spears and they are not strong enough to force their way into the formation. And it looks absolutely wrong when it happens.

**Kraxis** · 03-09-2005, 12:09

Just did a number of tests with Mil Hops and Levies squaring off with Eastern Infantry on Grassy.
They confirmed my suspicion. The infantry charge obviously carries through the hedge of spears or pikes. While it looks odd and out of place with the Mil Hops it looks absolutely bad and almost hillarious when the same happens to pikemen.

I tested with both standing still and with the phalanx attacking, several times each, the same result happened in both scenarios. Each time 4-7 men got killed and another 3-4 got knocked down.
After the Eastern Infantry had fled I moved the phalanx to investigate the bodies. And in each case there were only those 4-7 men in the middle, the rest had died on the flanks.

**Browning** · 03-09-2005, 15:59

Perhaps your troops cought the Eastern Flu and some men died of it.

**hrvojej** · 03-09-2005, 16:28

The eastern infantrymen probably impale themselves on pikes with such a force that the shafts of the pikes run straight through their wielders sometimes. I think this is historically correct.

**Kraxis** · 03-09-2005, 17:40

Originally Posted by hrvojej

The eastern infantrymen probably impale themselves on pikes with such a force that the shafts of the pikes run straight through their wielders sometimes. I think this is historically correct.

Well, that is a good point, but sadly it doen't mirror the game. The Mil Hop gets killed or knocked down, but the Eastern Infantryman doesn't die usually as the game only applies the chargebonus of the Eastern Infantry. When they charge the Mil Hops and other phalanx units don't have time to stab once before the enemy had carried out their charge. So to me it isn't because the poor infantryman has killed himself to hard that he also kills his enemy. Btw, how can you get killed by a man impaling himself on a pike that is next to you. At worst you would drop it or cling on to it as it snapped.

I tested this again, but this time with the Mil Hops out of Phalanx, this time an equal amount of men got killed and knocked down. So to me it has become obvious that the spearpoints are somehow connectors of the chargebonus going from the attacking infantry to the phalangite.

**Red Harvest** · 03-09-2005, 18:34

Kraxis,

I noticed the odd behaviour of charges vs. pikes fairly early with 1.2. The phalanx is taking a lot of charge casualties--particularly vs. horses. Realistic, no way! I'm not buying the concept of 5% of my force getting killed by butt spikes either. Especially since the front rows would easily plant their butt spikes in the ground to absorb the charge.

I can't tell that the long_pike has any advantage over the hoplite "spear" anymore.

**The Stranger** · 03-09-2005, 18:42

Originally Posted by hrvojej

The eastern infantrymen probably impale themselves on pikes with such a force that the shafts of the pikes run straight through their wielders sometimes. I think this is historically correct.

a good explenaton cause they used a kind of two pointed spear.

**hrvojej** · 03-09-2005, 21:23

Erm... My previous post was actually my attempt at some dry humor. I guess it didn't really work without the smilies. In any case, it's hard for me to imagine someone willingly impaling himself on a pike so forcefully as to injure the guy holding the spear. It's like the Kamikaze squads from "Life of Brian". Sorry for the confusion.