the elephants issue

[Red Harvest]

Well I dunno if I agree much with this. Since patch 1.1 (at least) archers and especially siege engines are already a REAL menace to elephants. I mean, do you guys play online MP? The poor elies aren't guilty that the AI sucks. In MP, it's enough to hold them with some cheap javelineer unit (who have +8 combat bonus againt elies already), keep an archer unit or 2 firing at them (fire arows are especially VERY effective) and there you go, you got yourself an UBBER expensive enemy unit routing in no time. OR simply target a siege engine at them (since siege machine's aim rises A LOT when aiming at elephants, even fire balls!) and there you go again... an ubber expensive unit cut in half and routing with a single onager shot.

Again, imo, we're not guilty the AI suks and so are not the poor elephants, so let's not exagerate on downgrading them.

+6, not +8. The problem was that elephants in 1.1 were invincible to infantry missiles: slingers/javs/archer--except for some siege weapons, and flaming arrows. So in 1.2 there is now a greater tendency to run amok. Unfortunately, it amplifies the stupid flaming arrows. In 1.1 I ran tests with 10 archer auxilia vs. a single elephant unit and the elephant always reached the archers without casualties as long as regular arrows were used. The only chance the archers had was in melee. Usually their numbers were enough to rout the elephants. Flaming arrows were another matter.

And in vanilla, the first time I faced onagers they killed two of my elephants with one shot. I have "issues" with onagers as well. They are implemented fantasy style.