No wall idea - best solution to loadgame bug & bad siege AI

**Jambo** · 03-10-2005, 20:57

I've just been trying the new no-wall idea (courtesy of Pode's idea) and I think it's the best solution we've got to combat the loadgame bug and the terrible siege AI. Offensively, the AI doesn't charge its forces recklessly like it does when there's a breach or pre-opened gates in vanilla. Defensively, it also offers the best challenge that I've seen. This is mainly because the ease at which one can defend and attack the AI when walls are involved is removed!

The only issue I can see is the immediate attack that one can do on cities, but then I guess that's possible anyway when things like onagers become available. On top of that, the AI can do it to you as well as you to the AI.

Thumbs up Pode.

This thread's a tribute to you, and to stimulate discussion on the idea.

**Pode** · 03-10-2005, 21:25

Thanks for the props, Jambo

It just occured to me that there's another subtle benefit of the no walls approach. Players can't rely on the towers and gates of walls to defend their towns, and there's no time to bring up a reserve army during the siege. You have to keep a garrison of decent strength in every border town, peasants and town watch won't cut it anymore. Of course, if rebels pop up, any city can become a border city without warning. The extra expense of training and maintaining those garrisons will limit the players ability to blitz the AI, making for a much tougher game.

**BDC** · 03-10-2005, 21:34

Any quick and easy way to edit the walls out?

**Jambo** · 03-10-2005, 21:47

yep, open up the export_descr_buildings file and first add walls as a hidden resource:

hidden_resources sparta rome italy walls

Then beside each wall entry further down the text file add the following:

and hidden_resource walls

For example, for the wooden pallisade:

wooden_pallisade requires factions { barbarian, ct_carthage, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, } and hidden_resource walls

Then open up the descr_strat file and remove each wall entry from each city!

And away you go! :D

**hrvojej** · 03-10-2005, 22:34

I have also modded the game according to Pode's idea, so here's another one

I didn't actually play much since, because I *really* wanted to finish my Pontus campaign instead of starting a new one (and the Pontus one has walls). However, it occured to me as well that the game would indeed be more tense, and less frustrating too. No more "where do you think you're going" monkey business in sieges, I'd actually have to fight those big garissons in something that resembles a field battle, I could even lose a town for once in the game, etc. But, maybe at some later point when I get back into it full time.

**player1** · 03-10-2005, 23:26

I don't thing it will raelly help on the long run.

For example, in my Greek game, I had Pontus sneak attack my unwalled city. Battle got very bad for me because of some simple mistakes, with unit placement on battlefiled.

Anyway, I reloaded, and on my suprise I wasn't attacked at all.

**Jambo** · 03-11-2005, 00:15

I'm yet to see how it plays in the long-run, but it's now 258 BC in my Scythia short campaign (VH/M) and the AI has expanded, territories have swapped hands and things are progressing well. In addditon to the no-walls I also reduced the action points from 80 to 60 (in descr_character file) so that units can't move as far on a turn. This somewhat limits the speed at which the no-walled cities can be conquered. This also allows a little preparation on my behalf! ;)

Anyway, it's a different sort of game and one that I don't appear, for the time-being, to have to worry about the loadgame and AI stagnation quite so much. Carthage and Seleucid seem to suffer a little more, as early wars can cripple them more quickly now. Maybe some sort of faction rebalance is needed to brings these guys back up to scratch.

**Epistolary Richard** · 03-11-2005, 11:24

Another benefit:

Sallies - several people wanted the option to fight an open field battle when they sallied rather than have to squeeze all their troops out through the gates. Well, now you can just line up and walk forwards.

Also:

Does getting rid of the walls stop the AI from parading back and forth when you're shooting them?

**Someone Stupid** · 03-11-2005, 12:01

To stop IMMEDIATE attacks couldn't you edit the one of the walls to be able to be torn down and have some stupidly low cost. Enemy sieges, give yourself a a few turns tops to reach the city to send reinforcements, if you can't make it there in time, destroy the wall. It becomes a bit more involved, but at least you won't have to have major amounts of troops spread across the entire map. Though if they attack before you can destroy them, your at the same problem as before.

Still playing with walls currently - but I'm starting to debate this at times. The AI in 1.2 is too conservative in attacking fortifications more often than not. Sometimes it'll manage to stumble itself into attacking and attacking decently - but not often.

**Puzz3D** · 03-11-2005, 15:44

With the SPQR mod there are 63 additional cities on the campaign map, and it's almost impossible to have a turn without any sieges in progress. The AI maintains lots of large armies, and they may get put to more use with no walls. I've started a campaign with the SPQR mod and Pode's no walls idea, but I left the stone walls on the 6 cites that have them to start: Rome, Carthage, Syracuse, Corinth, Athens and Memphis. No further wall building will occur. Carthage is a powerhouse in SPQR mod, and already captured Messana from Scipii in 268 BC.

**Lochar** · 03-12-2005, 01:50

I am a little more than midway in a long campaign and refuse to start over but have a question with no the no walls.

Will the AI sally forth if no walls are there?

I ask this because while the AI expands slow with walls I am witnessing expansion, but for me it is alot easier when a city has small walls as opposed to large ones, as my 3 onagers will have them scurrying all over. When there are walls in place, the onagers are used for the doors and towers, but the walls prevent any mass gatherings.

Granted I didnt start on hard mode at first so not sure if that would help but often having the enemy just standing there getting massacred by my flaming pitch wasnt as fun as storming the walls and trying to control the towers. Altho I did notice that with fast cavalry and a good path you can almost run to the town center while most of the troops are still on the walls and hope you can defend the center for 3 minutes.