Mundus Magnus. Large map for RTW.

[Dead Moroz]

Mundus Magnus, v.1.0

Features:

1. New map expanded to north, south and east, with numerous changes within old area.
2. More or less geographically correct depiction of landscapes and provinces (for 270 BC).







3. More historically correct start positions of factions.
4. Corrected base farm levels of provinces.
5. Corrected old and new added mercenaries pools.
6. Storms and floods happens more often.
7. 4 new trade resources: ivory, salt, fish and horses.



8. New units in city's view.




9. Rebalanced factions.
10. Corrected compositions of rebels.
11. Reworked speed of units on different ground types on battle and strategy maps.
12. Increased movement radius on strategy map.
13. Anti-squalor changes:
- "Health" buildings now have happiness bonus.
- "Academy" buildings now have happiness and law bonuses.
- Happiness bonus of "Entertainment" and "Tavern" buildings now increased.
- Law bonuses of "Despotic" buildings now increased.
- Walls now have law bonus.
- Hippodrome and Circus Maximus now have happiness bonus.
- Happiness and law bonuses of temples increased.
- Increased effect of anti-squalor and law traits and ancillaries.
14. Other cosmetic changes: correct leader pictures and new faction maps for faction selection screen; new faction colors for mini-map.
15. Include fixes:
- Enabled mercenary Horse Archers in Armenia mercenary pool.
- Seleucid Armoured Elephants are available only in regions with elephant resource now.
- Iberian generals have proper appearance now.
- Weapon of Macedonian Royal Pikemen changed from spear to long pike.
- Thracian Phalanx Pikemen are now available in Army Barracks.
- Praetorian Cohorts can no longer be recruited before Marian reforms.
- Scythian and Pontic General's units are upgraded after Marian reforms now.
- Horse Archers can proper fire while moving.
- Head Hurlers now are infantry throwing heads before charge.
- Seleucid War Elephants now use indian elephant model instead of african.
16. Include patch allowing to play with Sarmatia instead of Scythia.



17. Include descriptions from "Completed Factions" mod by jpinard/Luvian/Siblesz.

Known bugs:

1. Arabia Deserta and surrounding regions may not lead roads to each other until all neighbouring regions have roads.


Thanks to Europa Barbarorum mod team, especially eadingas.
Thanks to jpinard, Luvian and Siblesz for their Completed Factions mod.
Thanks to CA for improving AI in 1.2.

You can play with this mod in RTW and modify it for your individual purposes.
You must get permission from "Europa Barbarorum" mod team if you want to use this map in public mod before the release of "Europa Barbarorum". You don't need such permission after release of "Europa Barbarorum".

Link for download:
http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=442

[caesar44]

looks very nice

[Lonely Soldier]

I agree with Caesar on this!

I have recently started a mod ( https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=717652 ) which is aiming to add realism (and in some cases considerable size) to the towns in Rome. the two mods could work very well together. What better combination than an extended and accurate map and extended and accurate towns together?

If you are interested please post on the thread - if not, ignore this post, except for the compliment!

Yours'

Lonely Soldier

[PROMETHEUS]

Very good Map DM , I hope That Europa Barbarorum Will be able to use it may be...we would really need something like this since our old mapper seemed to disappear.....

[Dead Moroz]

I agree with Caesar on this!

I have recently started a mod ( https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=717652 ) which is aiming to add realism (and in some cases considerable size) to the towns in Rome. the two mods could work very well together. What better combination than an extended and accurate map and extended and accurate towns together?

If you are interested please post on the thread - if not, ignore this post, except for the compliment!

Yours'

Lonely Soldier

Your plans are interesting. I thought about similar changes too. Unfortunately I cannot participate.

[Meneldil]

Dead Moroz, I could never thank you enough for releasing that.

Everything is awesome. I don't know if you made that as a part of the EB project (I think so), but your contribution to the RTW community is unbelievable

[Super_TW]

It's very big map

Salut Meneldil est-ce que tu vas sur des forums français ?? (sur rtw)

Si oui lesquelles ???

[Kraxis]

Damn the Seleucids are almost halfways to victory from the onset.

But good work on the map itself and the resources...

[eadingas]

Looks strangely familiar for some reason...

[Meneldil]

Is what I read on TWCenter right ?

EB DID NOT give you permission to post this, and I WILL NOT give you permission to distribute or host this file.

I was planning to use it for Diadochi TW, but if EB doesn't want us to use it, then I'll just delete the file.

[sharrukin]

Taken from the Latin words plagiaries, meaning plunderer, and plagium, meaning kidnapping, plagiarism means "to steal and use (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own," according to The American Heritage Dictionary, second edition. Going further, Stephen Glazier in Random House's Word Menu defines plagiarism as "appropriation and publication of another's writing without consent" (409). He also defines it as "literary theft; stealing another's work without giving credit, passing it off as one's own (543). To summarize, plagiarism means taking someone else's words, ideas, or specialized information and passing them off as one's own; it is intellectual theft.

Can we all say 'plagiarism' together...wait, no I guess that's about the only thing you can claim to have done on your own!

Most of the work you are claiming credit for came from other peoples research and time. Where the rivers are located, where mountains go, ancient climatic zones, historically accurate names and locations for the towns and ports. The detailed satellite mapping, provincial borders, names, water resources and vegetation patterns, ancient tree coverage. The location of mines and mineral resources, trade patterns and commodities.

You steal what was never yours to begin with and then you thank us for it.
Well now, Dead Moroz, you don't need to thank us for it. We would have settled for common decency. None of us are getting paid for this, all you had to do was wait a few weeks!

Do you even understand the concept of trust?
That when you accept other peoples trust you also accept the obligation to not betray it. Is that too complicated for you?

This is MY personal opinion and has nothing to do with EB.

[Dead Moroz]

You are not right, sharrukin. I appreciate your help and help of other EB members. But this is not closed information. Anyone can get this info from public sources - it's just a matter of time to gather and systematize it. Does EB have monopoly on history and geography? I'm not plagiarist or thief, or stupid robot, able only to produce files required for generating map. I would make this map anyway with or without EB's help. Though it would be not as perfect as it is and took much longer time. Moreover after leaving the team, I checked info myself and found that some things I got from EB members were wrong - you can notice it on the big map I posted.

Is the providing of information is real work on map? What can you have if you just know how to name things and where they should be but cannot make it all real and working? Are you sure that current EB map (better to say - the map I made) would look so nice if somebody else were making it? I don't think so. And even the last version of map I've sent to EB coordinators is not as good as it is now, many things were changed and corrected; it even contains some bugs that must be fixed (btw!). I made the map for you and other RTW fans to enjoy the game and the only thing I deserved from you is being unfair blamed as "plagiarist"? Pity, man.

Afaik, the team is making its own new map. I don't see why I cannot release my work.

[Trajen the 1st]

Ya its his map! Let him realease it when he wants! Fight for your freedom!

[Zharakov]

It says that this is an invalid MOD!

This is tyrany!

Has the western world gone mad?

It is his map, HE made it, HE suffered the long hours to make it, it is HIS creation, so shouldn't HE realese it when HE chooses?

[Trajen the 1st]

Hold the phone. Kehlvan says that his mod contians stuff other EB members have made! And he detrributed them without there permission! I think if he just removes all of there owrk untill its just his he might be okey. (MIGHT bieng a very strong factor in this.)

[GodsPetMonkey]

Stephen Glazier ... defines [plagiarism] as "literary theft; stealing another's work without giving credit, passing it off as one's own (543). To summarize, plagiarism means taking someone else's words, ideas, or specialized information and passing them off as one's own; it is intellectual theft.

In the context of intellecual property, that's thats pretty much the definition of plagiarism.

...
17. Include descriptions from "Completed Factions" mod by jpinard/Luvian/Siblesz.
...
Thanks to Europa Barbarorum mod team, especially eadingas.
Thanks to jpinard, Luvian and Siblesz for their Completed Factions mod.
Thanks to CA for improving AI in 1.2.

Thats a pretty good example of informal referencing for the use of concepts, ideas and knowledge of others.
If this were an academic paper you would be slapped for the sloppy methods, but it is not the same as plagiarism.

You steal what was never yours to begin with and then you thank us for it.

Yet it was never EB's either. For them (or anyone else, I don't know if your a member of their organisation) to claim that the body of knowledge that the EB team has collected is theirs alone, with the right to do with as they please, could be considered plagiarism (though I personally don't think it is), and is definately a breach of copyright.

Kehlvan says that his mod contians stuff other EB members have made! And he detrributed them without there permission! I think if he just removes all of there owrk untill its just his he might be okey.

Looking at the list of changes, apart from those directly map related (like starting positions) and the faction info (which he gave credit for) anyone with moderate knowledge of how to mod RTW could do them.
But perhaps he hasn't listed all the changes he made?

[gunnar]

Taken from the Latin words plagiaries, meaning plunderer, and plagium, meaning kidnapping, plagiarism means "to steal and use (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own," according to The American Heritage Dictionary, second edition. Going further, Stephen Glazier in Random House's Word Menu defines plagiarism as "appropriation and publication of another's writing without consent" (409). He also defines it as "literary theft; stealing another's work without giving credit, passing it off as one's own (543). To summarize, plagiarism means taking someone else's words, ideas, or specialized information and passing them off as one's own; it is intellectual theft.

What irony that you would use someone else's description of plagiarism without giving them credit!

[Teleklos Archelaou]

What irony that you would use someone else's description of plagiarism without giving them credit!

Very funny! "according to The American Heritage Dictionary, second edition" and " Stephen Glazier in Random House's Word Menu defines plagiarism as..."

[gunnar]

While I guess that argument could be made,

http://www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/expect...%20warning.htm

(Adapted by Mark Chekola, Philosophy Department, Minnesota State University Moorhead, with permission, from an article by SuEllen Shaw in Writer's Corner, Winter 1995-96)

Definition

Taken from the Latin words plagiaries, meaning plunderer, and plagium, meaning kidnapping, plagiarism means "to steal and use (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own," according to The American Heritage Dictionary, second edition. Going further, Stephen Glazier in Random House's Word Menu defines plagiarism as "appropriation and publication of another's writing without consent" (409). He also defines it as "literary theft; stealing another's work without giving credit, passing it off as one's own (543). To summarize, plagiarism means taking someone else's words, ideas, or specialized information and passing them off as one's own; it is intellectual theft.

Sound familiar?

[PSYCHO V]

DM !!?

..you gone renegade and now releasing EB stuff on your own bat?

[Duke John]

I've got 3 if's for you all:

If Dead Moroz made all the files related to this campaign map then there is no reason to accusing him of theft. He is not being paid by EB, he did not sign a non-disclosure agreement, so there is nothing EB can do about what Dead Moroz decides to do with his creations.

If Dead Moroz used models, graphics made by others then please send me a PM and I will close this thread (and remove the link) until Dead Moroz has adjusted the download so that it only contains his material. The exception is when other modders gave their (general) consent to Dead Moroz (or to the public in general).

If Dead Moroz has released a legal mod that is of his own creation and people continue harass this thead, accuse him of theft or other things to denigrate Dead Moroz then I will start issueing warnings.

I am dead serious about this.

Regards,
Rob

Edit: About the issue of wether this mod is entirely Dead Moroz's or not, I only want to see prove from the creators themselves. I do not trust it if someone knows about a person who created a model that Dead Moroz took.

[Trajen the 1st]

Ladys and Gentlemen i give you duke john:the voice of reason

[Dead Moroz]

I think if he just removes all of there owrk untill its just his he might be okey.

I'm afraid to do it I must rewrite all human history and greatly change the surface of the Earth.

[Duke John]

After some PM exchange with Dead Moroz I believe that this is a mod made by Dead Moroz. He may have used research done by others, but history is not copyrighted by anyone, so there is no reason to prohibit this mod from being made public.

If I see sabotage like done at TWC (the link was not removed on its own) then people can expect a temporary ban from these forums.

Dead Moroz
Feel free to upload your mod to the Org so that it becomes available again.

[Bwian]

Aside from this being a very nice piece of work ... this issue does raise some very interesting points.

If you work as part of a mod team, as I understand DM did, but subsequently leave, do you have to give up all rights to the work you did as part of the team?

What DM had done was to take the work away with him, and finish it off to his satisfaction. If the mod teams want to claim work done as 'the property of the mod not it's members' then that should be made clear at the outset. If that wasn't done, then you can't blame him for carrying on with the work.

Not mentioned here, are the conditions under which he stopped working for the Mod. Was he asked to stop work on anything intended as mod content? Was he asked to delete / hold until EB release etc.

If he WAS...then he has been a bit naughty, and deserves a bit of a 'slap'. If not..then he has done NOTHING WRONG. He certainly hasn't stolen the mod, isn't guilty of plagiarism ( a term not applicable here either....would be applicable if the lands were 'fantasy' but a bit trcky to apply to a factual map)

On top of all this, though, is the extremely dubious behaviour of 'The Mob'. In this country, there is the small matter of 'proof' that sits between accusation and conviction. Only Duke John seems to have gone to the trouble of finding any, and his findings seem to vindicate DM's right to release this. If someone proves to me that the Mod was pinched..I'll delete it. Until then, I am enjoying it in all it's detail.

[eadingas]

Well, this is not really a matter of 'general principles of modding' rather than the fact that EB has its own strict internal rules on who owns what. They are made clear to anyone _in_ EB, we just don't announce them in public.

[Dead Moroz]

Well, this is not really a matter of 'general principles of modding' rather than the fact that EB has its own strict internal rules on who owns what. They are made clear to anyone _in_ EB, we just don't announce them in public.

Eadingas, you know I never supported the idea that moder cannot make what he want with results of his work. We had the poll on this question at the beginning of work, and I voted for allowing any moder to release his work after the leaving of EB team. It was far before my first thoughts about leaving the team. I always was against reducing of moder's freedom and I don't see why I should change my mind now when I'm not even the member of EB.

Another side of the medal. Why do you think that you have rights to refuse me to public my work only because you gave me some advices (very valuable, I agree) while you can do what you wish with this work even without my permission?

[Duke John]

I got a PM from Aymar in which he said that all EB files are "property" of EB. When modders leave they leave the files behind. Dead Moroz gave me a PM in which he said he did not have a contract and that his work would always remain his. So the problem is clear.

Was there a notification of the EB staff that all EB files were property of EB? If you knew about that, Dead Moroz, and you disagreed then you should have immediately left the team. If you stayed then you automatically agreed with that policy.


Also I want to make clear that there is sticky in this forum called: "If there are problems, please contact the staff". It's not there for nothing.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Why do you think that you have rights to refuse me to public my work only because you gave me some advices (very valuable, I agree)

Hi DM. If you are willing to say this here ("this" being the fact that EB members' work for EB on the map did result in changes made to the map you present in your mod) then why not include it in your mod's description? I'm not saying that every member of the mod would be happy then, but it certainly would make a lot of them feel better and be more understanding about your release of the work. I apologize if I'm not making the situation better here, but this part specifically is one that really hurts the feelings of some people who did give advices that resulted in the map being changed, and those advices were given while the map was in development for EB. I do think this might help the situation.

[Duke John]

Thread closed

I got a PM from Aymar in which he wrote that other EB members had dived into obscure books and others made maps to aid in the map editing. That is enough for me to show that while Dead Moroz may have made the files there is also so much work gone into it by others that it's not his map exclusively.

However EB now has a different map and from Aymar I understood that a compromise is possible. Until that compromise has been made and made known this thread is closed and the map is not to be spread on the Org.

It seems that my first reaction was wrong, but I can only say that I did not know the whole story. Probably foolish of me to draw conclusions without hearing the other side.