foot knights

[zambol]

Is it possible to produce chivalric/gothic foot knights or are they only available if knights dismount?
If so why does some valor bonus for them exist in Isle de France/Brandenburg?
I really would look forward to get some tough infantry, the stats of foot knights look marvellous but I never could try them in battle.

[hrvojej]

You cannot recruit them unless you edit the game. The valor bonuses have no effect in the unmodded game, they are probably a result of earlier development course that has been abandoned. OTOH, as you have already noticed, later knights can dismount in open field (e.g. feudals can only dismount in a siege), so you can still use them as infantry OR cavalry, depending on the battle.
Cheers,

[Zarax]

Training foot knights would be historically incorrect.
Squires would cover that role but then they would be more like men at arms more than knights.

[ajaxfetish]

If you want Feudal Foot Knights look for mercenary Druzhina cavalry. They can dismount any time and there's even 60 men per unit.

If you want Chivalric or Gothic Foot Knights train Chivalric or Gothic Knights and tell them to dismount before battle.

I read on Frogbeastegg's unit guide that some people like to make armies of nothing but Chivalric knights, some mounted and some on foot. I've tried that in my latest game with France and I think it rocks. I've got mobility and power on the sides, and in the middle a dominant infantry that can cut through just about anything and only really needs to worry about crossbows or javelins (which the mounted knights can run down). Overall, horse archers are the one thing that could still really prove an irritation, and most of them aren't armor-piercing while my army is all heavily armored. I'm not looking forward to the desert, though. I'll need to alter my tactics for that.

[BAD]

If you play Viking Invasion as the Russian's you get to build Druzinha Cavalry (dismount for 60 man Feudal Foot Knight units). I found that after the Turk's the Russian's have a pretty awesome line up to go to battle with. They don't have the flexibilty of the Turk's but it doesn't really matter:-

Halberdier's - Mincing up Armour and Cavalry;
Boyar's and Steppe Heavies - Durable Horse Archer's with great combat ability;
Steppe Cavalry - Great for chasing routers and rear charges;
Woodsmen - Cheap Garrison and a cheap (but risky) option for taking out Armour;
Druzin. . . (cough) Feudal Foot Knights - Chewing up cavalry, spearmen and other sword units;

Oh yeah and Arbalests, archers, Lithuanian Cavalry. . .

[Mablung]

Lithuanian Cavalry is crap for the costs involved in getting the facilities for their training. They have average stats, Steppe Heavies are better - not to mention cheaper.

Lith Cav:
Charge: 6
Attack: 2
Defence: 3 (1 shield)
Armour: 4 (1 shield)
Morale: 2
Build Cost: 225 (slightly more expensive upkeep than SHC).
Requirements: Master Horse Breeder, Armourer's Guild, Swordsmith's Guild, can only be built in Lithuania or Livonia.
They do dismount, but only into vanilla archers.

SHC:
Charge: 4
Attack: 3
Defence: 4 (1 shield)
Armour: 5 (1 shield)
Morale: 4 (elite unit)
Build Cost: 450
Requirements: Horse Breeder's Guild, Armourer, can only be built in Muscovy, Volga_Bulgaria, Khazar, Pereyaslavl, Chernigov, Ryazan, Kiev.

Add to that Lith Cav can't be built in early.

[BAD]

I just like to use them (Lithuanian Cavalry). I have them. So why not. Nice for maneuvering into flanks and rear. Sure I could have an army made of just Halberdiers, Boyars, Steppe Heavies, Pavise Arbalesters and some Druzinha's if I'm feeling adventurous. -_- But WoW I would get bored so quick.

[bluebird]

I had a previous campaign where I had armies made up of purely chivalric knights, dismounting a few as needed before the battle. They were pretty invincible to be honest, better than anything the AI could muster. The only downside is the cost.

Royal knights can dismount before a battle so why not build a few of those to use as effective heavy Infantry. Personally I'd look to mercs to fill this hole, Varangian guards or huscarles are good if you can get em.

[Betito]

Is it possible to produce chivalric/gothic foot knights or are they only available if knights dismount? [...]

I think that removing the capability of training these units was a last-second decision, since pretty much everything that is required to implement it is there ( even the portarit of the units are there; personally, i really like the Gothic Foot portrait). All you have to do is to add some requirements for them to be trainable. My particular pick was the matching court and armourer level + swordsmith evolutions. E.g chivalric foot knights require Baronial court + Armourer's guild + Swordsmith's guild and so on.

[Zarax]

THey were most likely taken away because historically incorrect.
Only squires fought on foot, but then you already hae men at arms.

[ajaxfetish]

Well, actually, historically knights did dismount and fight on foot. At Poitiers or Agincourt, for example, many of the French knights fought on foot in an unsuccessful attempt to avoid repeating the previous catastrophes of charging English formations on horseback, and during the crusades horses didn't tend to last very long, so knights often fought on foot. However, it was the same knights who would fight just as well on horseback, they would just decide what would be more effective in each situation. So I think the choice whether to dismount them makes them very historically accurate. They're a versatile, all-around elite unite for the Christians that can perform as excellent cavalry or the best infantry depending on the need.

[Zarax]

I'm not disputing them to fight dismounted but the fact of actually producing foot knights.
Historically knights always had an horse, those who weren't on horseback outside of battle were either fallen knights or squires.
Another interesting historical fact is that no true knight fought as mercenary, only fallen, stained ones.

[Mablung]

Squires fought on horseback, Squires and Sergeants were aspiring Knights and had to have at least 1 horse - Sergeants a minimum of 2 IIRC. Knights did dismount to defend ground on foot but this only began to happen in the 14th century IIRC.

[ajaxfetish]

I agree with Zarax. Sorry, I think I just misunderstood you earlier. I was also trying to make the point that knights wouldn't be trained specifically as mounted knights or foot knights, but just knights-though they could do both.

[Zarax]

Well, just like now then.
Also, knights often were quite unruly on the battlefield so that in many battles they charged before ordered (100 years war) and dismounting them was the only way to keep them disciplined.
Of course the problem was having them dismounting before, something many refused to do.

[Don Corleone]

I don't think Zambol's point was to start a historical discussion so much as to inquire why the game gives you a valor bonus for a unit you technically cannot build. I have always interpreted it to mean that if you build chivalric knights, let's say in Ile de France, they get a valor bonus only when you dismount them before the battle. Is that correct?

[andy447722]

If you download and use the brilliant XL mod created by Viking horde then you can train all manner of foot knights plus loads of other historically accurate units plus the units you never get (dismounted hospitallers, sherwood foresters etc). I really don't see a problem with foot knights being trained as they were used throughout history and who says that your whole army didn't ride to battle on horseback and dismount before the fight?

[ajaxfetish]

I don't think Zambol's point was to start a historical discussion so much as to inquire why the game gives you a valor bonus for a unit you technically cannot build. I have always interpreted it to mean that if you build chivalric knights, let's say in Ile de France, they get a valor bonus only when you dismount them before the battle. Is that correct?

That's what I assumed when I first saw the valor bonus for foot knights, but now I'm not sure. It'd be very nice to get some confirmation from someone who definitely knows. If that is the case I'd like to know if there's a way to keep track of which units have the bonus so you know who to dismount before the battle. Wouldn't make much sense to dismount your unit from Toulouse and keep the Ile de France guys mounted.

[mfberg]

I'd like to know if there's a way to keep track of which units have the bonus

The only way I know is to write each general's name down as they get built. Time cosuming I know. The other thing you can do is edit the unit production files to make the foot knights buildable, or only buildable in those provinces where they get the bonus.

mfberg

[cunobelinus]

they are aviable wen knights dismount they are good units but i think they are better o horse back i spose it matter swat type of unit want