Has anyone been to totalwar.com recently

[Productivity]

in defense of GilJay, he can say any 'pompous arrogant' thing he wants as long as it's within the guidelines of the org. why should a patron be limited in what he wants to say just because he works for CA? the org is supposed to be neutral ground. it wasn't created by or funded by CA and i don't see why CA employees should have to be on their best behavior here when others are rude towards them. any CA employee has the right to criticize gamers here, any gamer has the right to criticize about CA employees here, and any gamer has the right to criticize gamers that criticize CA employees here. as long as it all follows the guidelines of the org. freedom of speech.

That is true, it's up to CA to decide if they want some who is essentially wearing their uniform, posting that stuff.

Just like your work wouldn't want you to go insulting your customers while using their uniform, I doubt CA would either...

[Kraxis]

Since they only post here in their free hours and of their own free will, and that they have been given the CA tags by 'us' (meaning the .org) it is to say that they are in fact all the time wearing their uniforms.

[player1]

It would be just sad not to get 1.21 patch as hotfix for worst problems, if there are no big plans.

Anyway, isn't fixing bugs, in fact, already working in expansion?

Of course, exempt if they already work on unannounced expansion, so it's impractical to patch old code for vanilla game (just speculating).

[Browning]

The expansion, as a new software version, is designed to include new features. E.g. a new feature would be an ability to (re)name your military units. Or to summon a vampire.

Bugfixes are something different. But usually bugs that are detected (and confirmed as bugs) should be fixed in the new software version. If there will be another, minor software release intended to fixes alone (aka patch), is another story. This is a somehow bigger organisation effort, but no increase software development effort to do so. And from what I read from the CA guys, there will be a patch.

I also understand why they choose to be so little specific. One possible reason is they discovered additional bugs in between and don't want to open a can of worms - complains - now.

[player1]

There are two types of games then have expansions.

Those that use same basic executable for both expanded and original version of the game.
Exmples: Neverwinter Nights, Warcraft3

The benefit of such development is that code changes benefit both expanded and original version of the game. So if you fix bug in expansion, you fixed it basic version too. Such games also tend to have, after expansion is released, patches for both expanded and original version of the code simultaneously.

The other type of the games use different executables for expansion compared to original.
Example: Civilization3

Expansions exe is built from the basics of the original. Such games tend not to have patches for original after expansion is relased. Since original verion code is, in effect, "obsolete" it's not cost effective to patch both original and expansion. Also such games tend not to have patches relased after work on expansion has reached its peak, when significant amount of code it already changed.

Otherwise it would mean tracking two different codes, and that can be very difficult and bug-prone.

[demon rob]

two CA emails - good to see! What happened to the plan of sticking the CA icon on threads where CA have emailed?

A pity we still havent got any answers we want, Sidekick really just reiterated what Alex has said, except from a CA perspective. We know they will continue, we know they have future plans, and we know they love the game. Its just the questions of the patch and the game direction we really want to know.

ps: totalwar.com, isn't it just there as a filter and here and twc are the real forums. Good to visit for some idle entertainment.

[mxlm]

Sheesh. Kiddies, take a deep breath, step back, and calm down.

If RTW is really that disappointing to you folks, why on earth are you still browsing these forums? Take a few months off, forget about Rome, come back when you see the expansion on the shelves. Or just forget about Rome indefinitely. Seems as though you'd be saving yourselves a lot of heartache over a game that way. But hey, what do I know?

(No, this isn't a "omgdon'tcomplainun00bs" post)

[Catiline]

two CA emails - good to see! What happened to the plan of sticking the CA icon on threads where CA have emailed?

I do it when i see them

[Turbo]

Despite the fact that 1.2 introduced new bugs to the game, CA has no intention of doing any further patches to RTW. That has been made crystal clear on .COM. Wishing it weren't so isn't going to change anything. People need to either accept the game in its admittedly broken condition with a crappy AI or find a different game to play.

CA is not the same company that it used to be. Veterans of the series are not longer strategic to their corporate vision. They are shifting their resources to the console market. Time for us to move on to a different game and different publisher.

[player1]

I see that "crystal clear" thing on "no patches" way to often.

Does anyone have a real proof.
A link perhaps?

And if there is a quote, is it before 1.2 release or not?

[Wishazu]

great thread :) i loved the lil dialogue at the end of Intrepid Sidekicks signature. probably the most entertaining and interesting part of this thread. Anyways, if your not satisfied with rome in its vanilla or 1.2 versions or whatever, there are plenty of mods out there, and some superb ones on the way.

[AntiochusIII]

Hmm...Lets see, we have: 2 Elephants, 3 Archers and a pig. And the persians have... 1 and a 1/2 million men.
Better not light the pig too early Intrepid Sidekick.

Bloodyhell! Where did the Persians get all those 1.5 million men!?! Xerxes must be proud...

Nonetheless, I beg you to be careful. Spare the lives of those pant-wearing fools. Don't let the Elephants kill them all!!! Or else I'll sue you and keep whining for 1.3 patch, 1.4 patch, 1.5 patch, and so on until the expansion comes out...which would not be the end of my whining yet.

Okay, I'm not quite interested in this thread that much. Just interested for the celebrities (CA staff) coming here with..er..weird names.


P.S. I wonder if he'll ever see this..my bet: no!

[demon rob]

It was "crystal clear" they wouldn't fix the 56yo dying kings in viking too.

And no, it has never been said anyware that there is a 2 patch limit, just that there is only 2 patches financed by Activision. And Activision are such a big player in the total war future now aren't they.

Microsoft got into consoles. Does that mean they have taken away all their resources from PCs?

(and the kings wasn't as much a game killer as the load bug).

[player1]

So anyway, only thing they said is that they "planned" 2 patches.

[Attalus]

Sidekick was far nicer than I intended. I apologise for that.

LMFAO!!

[AntiochusIII]

It was "crystal clear" they wouldn't fix the 56yo dying kings in viking too.

Very much agreed.

And no, it has never been said anyware that there is a 2 patch limit, just that there is only 2 patches financed by Activision. And Activision are such a big player in the total war future now aren't they.

I hope and really wish you're right. I'd like another patch, pleaaasseeeeee(purring in an extremely hopeful way)

Microsoft got into consoles. Does that mean they have taken away all their resources from PCs?

There's two fatal points in your claims: Microsoft is a damn big company, and I hate many of their games, except for Age of Empires. Of course, I agree with your point. I'm an official fanboy now.

(and the kings wasn't as much a game killer as the load bug).

I know it's sarcasm, but...Yes it is. No...it's worse. Look! King Philip II Augustus of France DON'T deserve to die at 56!!! Neither do Frederick I Barbarossa!

In the meantime I find myself sometimes...deliberately...trying to stop myself from directly/intentionally exploit the save-load bug.

[player1]

It's intersting to note that at COM, in cavarly doesn't work thread, some CA officials replied that they checked the issue and confirmend that cavalry charge does work.

Now, would someone look into issues if not planning to do the patch?

[Turbo]

I see that "crystal clear" thing on "no patches" way to often.

Does anyone have a real proof.
A link perhaps?

And if there is a quote, is it before 1.2 release or not?

Hope springs eternal I guess. I made my statement based on the below link. I don't know how much more specific anyone needs.

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...cID=6403.topic

[ToranagaSama]

Will there be an expansion?

How many strategy/battle games with a 3D camapign map, thousands of 3d troops on 3D battlefields are there out there, that allow you to play the Roman Empire?
And how many of those are better than RTW?

[snip]

Intrepid Sidekick
C.A Staff

PMFJI, but I haven't been around in awhile, and I can't resist.

In answer to your question, there are TWO:

1) Shogun: Total War

and

2) Medieval: Total War.


In addition, one must mention the effort of WesW and his MedMod, which frankly is the supreme Total War incarnation.

BTW, regarding "keeping the faith", I believe you may be among the many *Newbies* that RTW has brought forth (including devs), and consequently may not be aware, but there are a goodly number of the Total War faithful who have been "keeiping the faith" behind The Creative Assembly's promise, NOTE: that is a paid my hard earned money for promise, of a Multiplay Campaign.

Keeping the faith? How long has it been? 3, 4 YEARS!
RTW is a royal screwing of the faithful.
Sorry, my *faith* well runneth dry....

[Shambles]

TW web site Sux lol.
Rome Tw sux lol :)

I dont care what they do any more tell you the truth,
CA arent as good as ea when it coemes to the Tw games, but
EA let me down by closing server so i no longer Buy any of there games after all whos to say All there games wont suffer same fate,


and personaly With the patches so far I hope they Stop playing with things they dont understand :P
still cant complain all day,
Still love shogun,
but I played rome tw again today
(thing still sux compared to shougun )

lol im gonna leave now b4 i start really complaining.

[Ser Clegane]

CA arent as good as ea when it coemes to the Tw games

I'm not sure if you are aware that CA is the developer of all TW games. EA was just the publisher for STW as Activision was for MTW and RTW.

[screwtype]

I develop software and know you cannot create perfection on the first shot with a large, sophisticated program. Users know this too, and they will be tolerant to a degree of the first effort. But once you address the issues and say, "We've done all we intend to do", as CA has, you then best better have a nearly perfect product, with no bugs rated as serious or critical. The HA bug is serious, the scarring issue is serious, and the save/reload bug borders on critical for its threat to good gameplay for many users. This is hardly the kind of stuff that should have escaped them, and they need to be accountable for their errors- EVEN IF IT COSTS THEM MONEY TO FIX!!

We aren't going to get fairness though, because CA has sold its corporate soul to the devil, and we will have to pay for fixes in the expansion pack which should have been caught with release 1.1 at the latest. Abusing your customers for short term gain is never a winning business plan.

I admit I'm hooked deeply enough on RTW to pay whatever for the expansion, but I'm disappointed at the lack of both pride in their work and business ethics the management of CA are displaying over this patch fiasco. To the management of CA: If you want to play in the big leagues, then be prepared to play professionally. If you want to be anything more than a "one hit wonder" remember the importance of doing your job right, and then standing by it to correct any errors on your part.

Geez, and to think you started off here by slamming everyone who dared to criticize CA. You've come a long way baby. LOL.

But I agree with your comments. The last straw for me was when a member of CA on this board recently confessed that Activision had exerted no pressure on CA and that all the design decisions in the game were CA's own. That and the fact he seemed to think the game is great because lots of folks have bought it - it's clear that CA are going to continue with their business strategy of appealing to the lowest common denominator at the expense of realism or anything else which might get in the way of maximum sales. Get ready for "Witches and Warlocks: Total War" people, because it's not far away...

[screwtype]

More important, it's not like bug free gaming doesn't happen. When was the last time you got a patch for your console game? Oh, yeah, they can't patch them, so they have to . . . drum roll . . . get it right the first time. Don't tell me it can't be done.

True, but then, they charge half as much again for console games.

[screwtype]

CA is not the same company that it used to be. Veterans of the series are not longer strategic to their corporate vision.

Yes, I'm very much of that impression too. They are pursuing a different vision to that of the grognards and I think lovers of the earlier games are only likely to be further disappointed in future.

They are shifting their resources to the console market.

I don't think that is the case, I just think the TW series is becoming more of a kiddies' mass market exercise itself.

Time for us to move on to a different game and different publisher.

I've already moved on to other things. And I certainly won't be hanging around waiting for the next instalment of TW like I did for Rome. But I will still take note of the next release and the reception it gets in the grognard community.

[hrvojej]

The last straw for me was when a member of CA on this board recently confessed that Activision had exerted no pressure on CA and that all the design decisions in the game were CA's own. That and the fact he seemed to think the game is great because lots of folks have bought it - it's clear that CA are going to continue with their business strategy of appealing to the lowest common denominator at the expense of realism or anything else which might get in the way of a quick buck.

True. This, coupled with the sorry state of this game right now, is what led me to conclude that I will most likely obtain any future games from CA from the bargain bin, if at all.

This forum is still a nice place though, and the only reason I still hang out here sometimes.

[Craterus]

the forums on this site are really friendly and they're nice to come and "hang out". The Tavern is a cool forum!

[Simetrical]

The last straw for me was when a member of CA on this board recently confessed that Activision had exerted no pressure on CA and that all the design decisions in the game were CA's own.

Well, of course CA was the one that decided to make the game mass-market rather than realistic or whatever. No, the only thing I expect Activision is responsible for is the bad support. That's a very big thing, however.

The only design decision I really hold against CA was their failure to release so many modding tools to the public—we had to come up with tools like PAK extractors and CAS editors ourselves, we have to edit the many layers of the campaign map by hand, and so forth. The biggest thing CA left uneditable is the AI—true, it would be much harder to edit than anything yet released, but dedicated and skilled people like Vercingetorix could manage it if they didn't have to make basic tools like animation extractors. Other major annoyances are the hardcoding for the factions and the limitations of the scripting systems.

My future TW purchases will, in large part, probably be contingent on moddability. If Hun Invasion (or whatever the expansion will be) addresses enough of my modding complaints, you can bet I'll be buying it.

-Simetrical

[Old Celt]

I posted the following last week at the "official" website in response to a thread about the save game bug and the mods squelching any effort to receive a response from CA on what they intend to do about it:

(posted on Totalwar.com, 3/24)

"Continuing to push limits of Mod patience and jabs at CA will only cause this thread to be closed."

Just for the record, so it's clear: do you have an official policy stating no criticism, no matter how valid will be tolerated of the CA work effort, and particularly criticism directed toward the existence of bugs?

I post on several other RTW boards, and this one by far seems the most closed to speech which is tolerated and even encouraged elsewhere. Like many other concerned people, I paid for the product, and when I discover a major flaw in it, expecting an explanation for how the manufacturer will put it right is fair and reasonable.

We have gotten no response from CA, Activision, Sega, or anyone else in an official capacity telling us what the intentions are with regard to this severe bug. Closing threads won't make the problem go away. It sure might make the customers go away. If you (mods for this board) think that meeting valid customer complaints with threats and arrogance are going to help, I think you are sadly mistaken. If this is how you treat your concerned fans, I'd hate to see what you do to try to woo new business. If you want my money in the future, you'd better treat me right!

(end of post)

Of course, all the substance of the post was completely edited out, in true Nazi style, and I was invited to post elsewhere. So I am exercising that option here. All I want is for CA, Sega, or Activision to answer this complaint in a meaningful way. I've never seen this type of customer service, with the exception of a rundown bowling alley. Is it just a culture thing? Do British companies in general have the attitude that they can ignore valid complaints with impunity?

[HeresiarchQin]

Maybe according to the Activision policies CA are not allowed to say anything about bugs and such, especially now, after the second and also the last patch is out. After all, if CA admitted the bug's existance, the official truth of "the game is quite seriously flawed and there will be no more patch" will surely hurt the game's sales in some way. I'm quite positive that not all the guys in CA are idiots or completely blind, at least a few of them must have already tracked down the cause of the bugs we reported so far, and may even have already made some hot-fixes in their hard drive. Unfortunately enough, they cannot afford the consequences which will come if they release those mini-patches, after all CA isn't some very big and rich company like Blizzard and Id. Definetly not Micro$oft. :P

Maybe it's actually a good thing that they are not allowed to make a 1.3 patch, until the XPack comes out, because more bugs can be reported/fixed during this long time period...well, if they did release the 1.3 patch 2 weeks ago, then today we may be crying out "WE NEED 1.4 TO FIX THE BROKEN CHARGE BONUS!!!"

[Turbo]

Old Celt,

Welcome to the world of CA customer support or lack thereof. It is amazing to see how completely CA has turned their back on their loyal core customers. I am convinced that we, the current core customers are less and less strategic to CA as they move resources to console games.