Pavise Crossbows

[ajaxfetish]

I didn't used to have much respect for pavise troops. After my first time using them I figured that their slow march and quick fatigue outweighed the extra protection by making it a royal pain to outmaneouvre my enemies. But recently I gained some love for these units.

I was playing the Russians for the first time and knew I would soon have to deal with the horde, and I'd read in several posts that pavise crossbows were particularly effective for taking out their multitudes of horse archers without taking many losses. I decided to give it a try and trained some pavise crossbows to use in my anti-horde armies, along with halberdiers, boyars, and miscellaneous auxilliaries as available.

In one of my larger battles with them I had 5 units of Pavise crossbows, just one of halberds, 2 Druzhina cavalry which I decided to keep mounted for the mobility and armor piercing, and a lot of boyars. The enemy general was skilled and managed to attack the weakest part of my line, which was some of the crossbows backed up by the Druzhina's. I met his charge with the cavalry, but before long both units had broken and run and my pavise crossbows were holding back about half his army, mostly MHC, on their own. They held though, and I managed to surround him with my halberds and boyars, and smashed into him from the rear in a sort of hammer on anvil move, and the pavise guys made a remarkably good anvil. His army soon collapsed and was annihilated. The unit that bore the brunt of his assault was even able to join in mopping up his horse archers afterwards.

Overall, I only lost about 20 of my archers and the rest never wavered, though I was ashamed of how long I made them hold off the enemy's crack troops, greatly outnumbered and outclassed. In my opinion, they held the line as well or better than about any spearmen I've used. They weren't inflicting damage, but they sure were able to soak it up. I've got some new respect for some previously disdained troops.

[ichi]

Maybe its the fact that in online team play (2v2, 3v3, 4v4) it is absolutely essential to bring 3-4 pavise units that helped me to understand the value of these troops.

In online play the standard is to place 3-4 pavs just far enough out in front of your cav and inf that you can either recall the pavs when rushed, or send troops forward to protect them.

This works well for SP also, except that I usually pull my pavs back behind my inf line instead of sending cav forward to protect. Pavs have a low angle of fire so I usually don't use them to fire into the melee, unless I can get them to shoot into the back of an enemy unit.

However they are really good when used against approaching troops, those enemy units that haven't gotten to the fight yet.

One really important point is to remember that units that are receiving missile fire suffer a morale penalty. So, if you can get your pavs to shoot into the backs of an enemy that is fighting, the enemy 1) loses men more rapidly, 2) the enemy gets a morale penalty for missile fire, and 3) the enemy gets a penalty for having their flanks or rear threatened.

I use pavs on Hold Form so they don't skirmish, and give them armor upgrades as much as I can. I use them 2 ranks deep to maximize firing rate.

There is only one time that I use pavs to fight, and that is when I'm getting flanked. The pavs are a cheap way to slow down the flank, put them 4-5 deep on Hold Form/Hold Position and use them as speed bumps to slow down the flankers.

ichi

[_Aetius_]

The only uses Pav units have is on multiplayer and bridge battles, they can effect the outcome in most battles to some extent but require alot of micromanaging to keep them safe and move them to suitable locations to fire down on the enemy archers aremuch better for that.

However Pavs are in a class of their own on bridge battles firing from the side or at troops clogged up on the bridge trying to cross over to attack you they can cause massive casualties.

On multiplayer Pav Arbs (Pav arbs get used more often than Pav Crossbowmen)are a standard tool for any player online atleast 2 are necessary as most players choose massively armoured troops GFK CFK HFK etc Pavs can soften them up long before archers can get a good sight of them. They are a decent defensive tool online and can make a difference as armies online due to the fact you can only have so many units in an army with no reinforcements are exactly the same size so any damage done to attacking army will be crucial when both forces clash.

The only variables that can influence a weakened army attacking a defensive army is the attackers allies who can make up their allies losses, or of course if the attacker pulls of some strategic miracle.

Ive seen Pav Arbs cause massive damage to their enemies Heavy Infantry thus making a big difference when the armies clash in earnest.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I have never really used pavise units, I have never played multiplayer except once as the Turks. I will have to try them out. Before hearing about this I would use mostly heavy infantry and cavalry with a small amount of light cavalry and archers, and of course canons. I will have to try them out.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Having read this thread, I have started to use pavise units for storming castles. For some time I have been worried about the number of men I lose due to missile fire from units, arrow towers and wall. Pavise units soak up missiles much better than others. Although casulties are still high, I lose fewer men than when I was using archers or longbowmen. They are slow, so it is even more important to make several breaches and attack in more than one place. I have never used them before because I always play English and longbow men are much better in open battle. I suspect they might also be useful against mounted archers.

[Procrustes]

If you put your units on "loose" formation as they are approaching the castle they will take a lot less arrow damage. Make sure to switch to "close" before you go through the breach. Also, start running them when they start to take arrow fire - if you watch the arrows you will see that most of your men will run under them. (This works against you, too.)

Personally, I use cheap units when I assault. Militia units are great. So are slav warriors and spearmen. Vikings are killers if you are the Danes. If I bring missile units in the walls I take javelins and take them off skirmish - yup, a lot die, but they can kill anything. Regular archers can take out wooden structures cheaply. Be a little wary of bringing peasants - a few are great to use battering the gates, but they are always pretty useless after that, and if you have too many you may end up with a mass route after one gets beat up.