Formation mod

[Kraxis]

You could also make the Scipio Africanus version of Triplex Acies. With lanes rather than a checkerboard.

You could create a phalanx formation of en enchelon one way or the other where each phalanx unit protects the next by virtue of its pikes/spears. That would grant the phalanx armies a great versatility when facing melee strong enemies as it would present their cavalry with a great opening. If the enemy attacks the line head on they will end up in an echelon themselves and the the cavalry will easily sweep them from the side that is farthest back (from the phalanx position). Any melee troops should be postitione right behind the phalanx units. This formation was used at Issus by Alexander.

[The_Mark]

What I meant was that it's a good idea to keep the depth and unit size in mind when you're making the formations. I think making units deeper is a good idea, but if you don't want to do that as part of your mod you could you could specify recommended depth and unit size; or you could do two sets, one for huge with deeper formations and one for large with regular depth; or four, whatever you feel like doing.

Yes, I was a bit worried by huge/small settings on the formations, particularly on the quincunx. Huge settings do tend to strech it quite wide. Not a good thing when facing cataphracts. One way of countering this would be make a huge variant with two units placed as one deeper block, but well, I doubt that ancient Romans themselves didn't put their maniples into only 4 man deep formations?

I'd still go for editing the EDU, or giving a recommended unit scale.

You could also make the Scipio Africanus version of Triplex Acies. With lanes rather than a checkerboard.

Umm.. Would that be like:

|||..|||..||| hastati
|||..|||..||| principes
|||..|||..||| triarii

. =empty

You could create a phalanx formation of en enchelon one way or the other where each phalanx unit protects the next by virtue of its pikes/spears. That would grant the phalanx armies a great versatility when facing melee strong enemies as it would present their cavalry with a great opening. If the enemy attacks the line head on they will end up in an echelon themselves and the the cavalry will easily sweep them from the side that is farthest back (from the phalanx position). Any melee troops should be postitione right behind the phalanx units. This formation was used at Issus by Alexander.

And by Philip against the Greeks in Chaeronea, as in:

...../|||||
.../ .......|||
./.............|||
/..................|||
..................................cavalry

/ = skrimishers, light inf
||| = phalanx

Yes, I am going to do that, but I doubt that AI can handle it. I hope so. Can it be used defensively? Then AI would keep it's form but the player might easily circle around to the lightly protected side of the phalanx.

[Sundjata Keita]

You seem to be doing rarther well at making these formations so I wonder if I can ask you a favour, could you do a formation for the Zulu mod. We need a bull-horn formation doing. Like the one in this picture



The chest and loins need to be all infantry, the heaviest infantry at the back, the horns need to be more infantry and all missile infantry need to be just infront of the chest in a line. The main body of the formation should be as depicted a two unit width.

This is only a request and you can turn it down but there is no rush so if you ever get any free time I would be very gratefull if you could do this.

Thanks,

Sundjata Keita

[The_Mark]

No problem, I can do that. Just... I don't know.. if.. well... What kind of infantry you need in those horns

I'll PM it to you when it's done. Just tell me what you need.

[Kraxis]

Yes the Africanus version was 'just' the principes right behind the hastati (and the triarii needed not be moved). The lanes themselves were filled with velites. So perhaps the first line could have skirmishers fill up the spaces?

And yes that was pretty much the formation I hoped for with the phalanx.
While we can 'easily' flank it, so can we with pretty much every formation out there. This one at least protects one side and has the other fairly well protected. And if there is cavalry it too will protect the vulnerable open side as it would take the enemy in the flank if they tried anything.

[Laridus Konivaich]

Is there a tutorial for making new formations anywhere? I think that quite a few people would aprreciate a link. Also, has anyone made a formation for the unit to form a circle, all facing outwards. If not, how hard would it be to make one?

[Epistolary Richard]

This thread is about army formations, as in skirmishers at the front, cavalry at the back, rather than unit formations (such as square, wedge, phalanx etc.).

Unit formations are hard-coded, however Duke John discovered a method of adapting the horde formation, which you can find here. This should allow you to create a circle unit formation (at the expense of the horde formation), but I don't know if it will allow you to have them all face outwards.

Update: There's also The_Mark's original thread where he raised the idea. While it doesn't include a tutorial per se it does include useful information if you want to get started. It was on the Colosseum and can be found here.

[Epistolary Richard]

No problem, I can do that. Just... I don't know.. if.. well... What kind of infantry you need in those horns

Probably the same kind of infantry that makes up the chest. AFAIK there wasn't a great deal of specialisation between the four warbands.

Someone from the mod can correct me if I'm wrong but I would think that the particular 'horn' shape on that diagram is intended to be indicative of the flanking movement of the warbands. I don't think they're anticipating that you can actually make a unit into a horn shape

[The_Mark]

Someone from the mod can correct me if I'm wrong but I would think that the particular 'horn' shape on that diagram is intended to be indicative of the flanking movement of the warbands. I don't think they're anticipating that you can actually make a unit into a horn shape

Figured that much out

Actually the bull horn-formation looks a bit like this at the moment:

######..................######
######..................######
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤.^^^^^^^^¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
............¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤..........
............¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤..........
............##########...

#=heavy inf
¤=light inf
^=skirmish

The horns start a bit more back than in the "diagram". The formation has been sent to Sundjata Keita for testing, I let him release the screens when he's ready.

Is there a tutorial for making new formations anywhere? I think that quite a few people would aprreciate a link. Also, has anyone made a formation for the unit to form a circle, all facing outwards. If not, how hard would it be to make one?

What Richard said.

[The_Mark]

Yes the Africanus version was 'just' the principes right behind the hastati (and the triarii needed not be moved). The lanes themselves were filled with velites. So perhaps the first line could have skirmishers fill up the spaces?

Thanks, I'll include it in the mod.

And yes that was pretty much the formation I hoped for with the phalanx.
While we can 'easily' flank it, so can we with pretty much every formation out there. This one at least protects one side and has the other fairly well protected. And if there is cavalry it too will protect the vulnerable open side as it would take the enemy in the flank if they tried anything.

If cav would be massed on the protected flank, with skirmishers/light inf covering the other and a phalanx/heavy inf reserve behind them, wouldn't that be quite good?