The Japanese Pacific Strategy (Warning: WW2 Thread)

[IrishMike]

Japan's whole starting mindset was to strike America hard. So hard that it would either force a treaty of non-aggression or to set America far back so that by the time its pacific strength was back up to pre Pearl Harbor, Japan would be strong enough to put up an actual fight. Neither of these possiblities happened due to Japan missing the whole targets of Pearl Harbor, the Carriers. America's whole naval power was the carriers, victory of defeat depended on them, much like the navy today, they were able to carry the biggest attacking power. Much of the other ships, such as battleship row, were a little outdated and America didn't really depend on its battleships for absolute vicotry in the Pacific.

Another very important point to understanding Pearl Harbor is that the Japanese didn't understand America. They thought that, like Hitler, America would lay down and die. They believed we had no moral, warrior tradition, and that our indulgence and wealth had made us weak, a point the marines that fought in the pacific proved wrong, they honestly thought that we would just surender after the attack. Also things might have been different if the declaration of war was delivered by the Japanese on time, but it wasn't, so Pearl Harbor was percived as a surprise attack, when it was meant to be a very well cordinated strike after the declaration of war.

Midway on the other hand was both a blunder for the Japanese as much as it was a brilliant hunt by the US carriers. There was quite alot of hunting down of their carriers, and on paper the Japanese should have won. Just America was more determined and had better position, and surprise, the Japanese had no ideal America would be there waiting to strike.

[CBR]

They didnt plan to make Midway costly for themselves

The point of attacking Midway was to force the US into a battle where they could kill the few remaining US carriers. Unfortunately for them they thought there would be only 2 carriers and not 3 and was so certain of victory they took some risks that cost them the battle and 4 carriers.

Taking Hawaii was definitely a good strategy but they simply didnt have the logistics to do it. It would require lots of troops as well as supply ships and they needed those for the other campaigns.

But yes they didnt really have a plan B. They achieved most of their objectives but USA just wouldnt give up and they hoped that USA would take so heavy losses taking it all back, that USA would be willing to negotiate.

There was really nothing they could have done as the differences in economy was huge and Japan was totally outproduced.


CBR

[PanzerJaeger]

Ok - i suppose i was right.

A more interesting question might be- Would the US have gone to war over China? (I dont think the US would have with the isolationist mentality) If not, then the Japanese never needed to attack America anyway.

I guess the lesson is to know your enemy. They didnt know America was willing to fight and they didnt know America probably wasnt willing to fight over China.


Also, any Pacific buffs want to explain the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot? This air battle has always been strange to me as i thought the Japanese had excellent pilots and the Zero was still formidible by that time. Werent the US using F4s, or were F6s involved aswell?

[CBR]

AFAIK Japan was getting strangled by the US oil embargo so if Japan didnt want to stop the war in China they had to grab the oil fields from the Dutch colonies and USA would most likely not allow that.


The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot was called that for a reason heh. The US had F6 Hellcats at that time yes. By then the Japanese had also lost most of their experienced pilots and was outnumbered too IIRC. It was fought in June 1944.

http://www.cannon-lexington.com/Page...ey%20Shoot.htm


CBR

[Drag0nUL]

First of all, Japan didn't want a large scale war in the Pacific.They were pushed into it by the U.S. who conditioned lifting the oil embargo by withdrawal from China. So Japan was left with 2 choices: becone a second grade power, or go to war. For anyone with some knowledge of Japanese code of honor and stuff the choice they would make was evident.
Secondly, the Japanese made no illusion they could totally defeat the U.S. Their operational plan in the Pacific was to occupy as many islands as possible in the South and Central area and create a defensive ring around Japan. They thought that, after some failed(and costly) attempts to breach it, the americans would be willing to negotiate peace on Japan's terms.
The Pearl Harbor operation was in fact a safety measure, to make sure the Pacific fleet would not interfere with Japanese landings in the Philipines.
The battle of Midway was in fact a very close affair(much closer than it looks). The decisive blow against the Japanese carriers was delivered by american dive bombers, which, after a long fruitless search, located their enemies just as they were launching what was meant to be the doom of the american fleet(an 104 aircraft strike force). Had the american bombers arrived about 10 minutes later, they would have probably lost the battle: the Japanese aircraft would have already left for their target and the damage to the japanese carriers would have been much less substantial(most of the damage was not done by the american bombs, but from their own planes with ammo and fuel blowing up).
As for the naval battles after Midway, Japanese were crippled by the lack of radar(which the Americans began to use to its full extent both for warning against air attacks and for artillery fire) and by the fact that, not planning a long war, they had organised no way of preparing replacement pilots for their airforce).

[Mouzafphaerre]

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They broadcast a documentary on NGC about Midway, history + underwater archeology mixed. They still show it from time to time and I've watched it a few times. In addition to what have been already stated, the Japanese fleet had no camouglage. One of the American bombers noticed the Japanese aircraft from the vigorously shining sun symbol painted all over the deck. (The pilot told himself in the programme.)

So, I conclude a clash between modern "technological" warfare and "outdated" code of honour. The Japans seem to have had no chance at all.
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[Drag0nUL]

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They broadcast a documentary on NGC about Midway, history + underwater archeology mixed. They still show it from time to time and I've watched it a few times. In addition to what have been already stated, the Japanese fleet had no camouglage. One of the American bombers noticed the Japanese aircraft from the vigorously shining sun symbol painted all over the deck. (The pilot told himself in the programme.)

So, I conclude a clash between modern "technological" warfare and "outdated" code of honour. The Japans seem to have had no chance at all.
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I assume you mean aircraft carriers.Indeed they had the rising sun painted on the deck but I was unaware this was an issue. I find it hard to imagine how you could camouflage an aircraft carrier in the open sea. They are a bit too big for that. And one more thing: I don't recall if this is also the case(and am too lazy to bring a book) but in most situations the pilots didn't spot the actual ships first, but the traces they left in the open sea.
On the other hand, i recall having read statements of the pilots who took part in the battle and many of them were impressed by the huge sun simbol on the Japanese flight deck.