How Does Morale Affect a Unit?

[Es Arkajae]

Does it give them increased attack or defence or does it just make them harder to break?

The reason I ask is because the AI armies always seem to turn tail and run at the drop of a hat. I don't want to give them an unfair advantage stat wise but I would like them to put up more of a fight before their entire army chain routs and the battle ends despite 80% of their army still being alive (well not for long once I've finished chasing them).

It may make for longer battles too.

So would upgrading all units morale a couple times or more really help them just last longer before breaking or would it have other effects?

Would there be a way of even changing it so that only the AI would get such a bonus to all its units or would I need to give it to all units individually including my own?

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, its a general enough question I think.

[hrvojej]

Morale affects how long the unit stays in the fight, no direct effect on attack and defence. This thread might also have some info about what you are asking.

[Wishazu]

you should try the total realism mod mate. you can get it from www.rometotalrealism.com

[Red Harvest]

The absolutely buggered traits and command stars of RTW are a fatal flaw. The AI won't have any decent generals when compared to the player. This means morale effects are seriously stacked against the AI.

Ever notice how much more dogged the AI rebels are when you send out a green family member to earn some stars? That illustrates the trait bug problem quite nicely. CA dropped the ball big time on RTW.

[Es Arkajae]

Morale affects how long the unit stays in the fight, no direct effect on attack and defence. This thread might also have some info about what you are asking.

Thanks mate.

I don't see what people are whining about with morale tweaks, I've never seen an AI unit that wasn't on a wall fight to the death EVER.

The main problem is that the whole enemy army will usually rout with only 20% casualties and the rest will be wiped out by ones cavalry.

So whether the enemy is fighting to the death or running away the end result is still the same, they get completely wiped out. At least with the former I get a good fight out of them for a change, and who knows the casualties they inflict may actually win them the battle.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Es Arkajae]

Another question.

What exactly does 'discipline' do?, 'training' apparently only affects unit formation, but what about 'discipline', impetuous apprently means they may be prone to running off without the leash.

Oh and does anyone know if there is a max limit for morale?

You don't think increasing all the morale levels 3x is too much or just about right?

[metatron]

IIRC, discipline is the opposite of impetuous. Meaning they're less likely to charge.

Also, if the forumla carries over from MTW, any unit in an impetuous charge has a "war giddy" bonus, possibly with +1 attack? (*is to tired to look for his book*)

[Dorkus]

Morale affects how long the unit stays in the fight, no direct effect on attack and defence. This thread might also have some info about what you are asking.

Are you certain about this? I thought low morale reduced attack values in MTW. I KNOW the "frightened" attribute reduced attack (in addition to reducing morale).

AFAIK, the devs have not given a clear description of the combat resolution mechanism.

[Dorkus]

IIRC, discipline is the opposite of impetuous. Meaning they're less likely to charge.

Also, if the forumla carries over from MTW, any unit in an impetuous charge has a "war giddy" bonus, possibly with +1 attack? (*is to tired to look for his book*)

Didn't disciplined also affect morale penalties from routing units? I know elite status did, but I thought disciplined granted a similar but less powerful bonus.

[Es Arkajae]

Well just fought a battle where all the units had had their morale increased x3.

In one corner of the flat grassy plain we have the human player *Es raises fists in air* "Adriannnnnnnnnnnnnn!"

In the other corner we have the computer "....................."

Romans (Defensive): Around 2,500 guys

1 Armoured General
2 Legionary cavalry
8 Legions
2 Archer Auxillia
2 Skirmisher Auxillia
2 Light Auxillia
2 Onagers
1 Wardogs

Gauls (Offensive): Around 2,800 guys

1 Chosen General
2 Noble Cavalry
8 Chosen swordsmen
2 Warbands
2 Forester Warbands
2 Skirmisher Warbands
2 Druids
1 Wardogs

*End Result*

Romans: 900 guys left

Gauls: 200 guys left

Roma Victor.

But damn if it wasn't a pyhric victory

Perhaps I made it a tad bit too much but I'm not worried, I'm probably never going to come up against a full stack of enemy elite units anyway.

Another effect this had though was to seriously nerf the ability of cavalry units to produce insta-routes on the enemy, they still kill enemy infantry at a high rate if used properly but thats what they have to do kill the enemy, not just panic them and then kill them when they're running away.

Also by the end of the battle units were routing rather quickly but thats because by then they were all exhausted, what this means is that in future I'll probably have to use actual reserves for the battle.

I don't know what effect exactly this will have on elephants, its my experience that elephants don't usually start routing until theres only 5 or so left anyway, so maybe no real effect. Same goes for chariots perhaps *shrugs*

Perhaps I may mod it down to just x2 morale though....

[Arkantos]

Anyone know how to stop unit routing?
I c my units stop routing after run far far away from the battlefield.
But when they stop routing, half of them was killed oledi.

[The Stranger]

i think the RTR morale are to beefed up, but use my layout, i think it's very balanced

peasants = 0 morale
levies = 2 morale
light unit = 6 morale
medium unit = 9 morale
heavy unit = 12 morale
elite unit and generals = 15 morale
berserkers and spartan = 18 morale

[hrvojej]

You don't think increasing all the morale levels 3x is too much or just about right?

I personally find that +4 or +5 is enough for the morale boost. What people have been talking about fighting to the death is that in one-on-ones units can fight to extermination with morale set too high. However, increased morale is definitively beneficial for full-stack fights IMHO - that's why I opted for the said boost which is noticaeble but not exaggerated.

Are you certain about this? I thought low morale reduced attack values in MTW. I KNOW the "frightened" attribute reduced attack (in addition to reducing morale).

AFAIK, the devs have not given a clear description of the combat resolution mechanism.

They indeed have not for RTW, but for MTW parameters were known. And I don't think that low morale reduced attack, or what you mean by "frightened". There was no direct link between morale and attack/defense, other than in routing vs. nonrouting units.

Disciplined status in MTW affected not only the penalty that the unit would get from the router status, but also the penalty they got from general's death and (supposedly) the lag in responding to orders. I have no clue whether any (or all) of this still holds in RTW.

[Dorkus]

Frightened as in horses vs. camels. I distinctly remember that fighting vs. a "frightening" enemy affected combat stats.

I thought there was a penalty to attack for reduced morale states as well. There used to be a thread indicating all the combat/morale modifiers from MTW, but it seems to have disappeaered. Or at least I can't find it with the new search function. oh well

[hrvojej]

Frightened as in horses vs. camels. I distinctly remember that fighting vs. a "frightening" enemy affected combat stats.

I thought there was a penalty to attack for reduced morale states as well. There used to be a thread indicating all the combat/morale modifiers from MTW, but it seems to have disappeaered. Or at least I can't find it with the new search function. oh well

Ah, that yes, but they are not really "frightened", it's just that they get bonuses on attack/defense, but nothing for morale. Sorry, I didn't catch at first what you were aiming for.

It seems that thread is gone, I'm afraid, but I have parts of it copied and that's where I doublechecked about the bonuses we're discussing here.