Wwi:tw

[The_Ferret]

Animators And Moddelers Needed Desperatly.

[Sundjata Keita]

Don't expect people to react instantly. There are a real shortage of modelers and skinners so you can't just presume you will get one in about 3 hours. (no bumping allowed)

Now I know this is flaming a bit but the entire concept is completely flawed. I have seen the thread at TWcenter and I know some people there have doubted it straight away, some of them with very little modding experience. However the concept of trench warfare even when they used old battle techniques (charging in etc.) does not fit the RTW engine at all. Haveing a few thousand men sitting in a trench for 5 hours while you watch them is not fun, there is not enough strategy involved in this kind of warfare.

Also the diplomatic issues are completely wrong for a WW1 conversion, it is a lot more complicated and you would need to be able to write complicated documents, play about with tradeing agreements, workers rights and manage the industrial revolution.

It is good of you to try to do a mod like this but walking in, having little or no experience with the RTW engine and saying your going to do the most ambitious project the community has ever seen and it is going to be really easy.

I don't want to stop you doing this at all as I like to encourage a wide variety of mods but you need to think a bit more before you post.

[The_Ferret]

I've been modding for a long time. I just never posted here before. Anyway. The whole point in the RTW is to simulate BATTLES. If you knew anything about WWI you'd know that battles weren't fought firing from side to side. And it wasnt just fought in trenches. Passendale ridge, both sides were out of a trench for the best part. You doubt it too much. We have ONE modeller and ONE skinner so I'm not realistically thinking that they are easy to get. But you've gotta try and grab whats there eh? We have the whole mechanics of things sorted. We know its possible we just need someone who wont mess it up. if you're interested anyone, above link. It will be really easy, and one member of our team is already set to post a sort of progress report. We almost have a soldier already. Honestly, it will be easier than anyone anticipated, even us.

[Reverend Joe]

Sunjata Keita- you may need some more experience with Great War era fighting. There were a LOT of battles fought partially or fully out of the trenches. The Russian front, for example, was only fought about half the time in trenches, and there was much more mobility. Only on the isolated French-Belgian front was there the almost-fully static trench battles people usually associate with the Great War, and even then there were constant, almost daily skirmishes between the two sides.

Also- a question for the modders: the Great War was one of the most bloddy, horrific wars in history... so how are you gonna show that? Or is it impossible?

[Sundjata Keita]

Actually I know quite a bit about WW1 trench warfare because a few years back as part of the British education system I had to do a project on it (I know its not anything to get me a degree but I'm not totally in the dark ). All along the western front generals would send there men across no mans land in one sweeping manouver to try and capture the opponents trech. If you knew anything about RTW you might realise this is not going top be an easy mod at all.

You say only half the battles on the Russian front were fought in trenches, probably less then that actually but it still means trench warfare. And lets not delude ourselves here, with the political stress and failure of Tsar Nicholas II in Russia during the time Russia was getting its butt kicked. Russia couldn't even beat Japan (who at the time were not a great power).

WW1 was all about politics and you won't be able to successfully simulate this in the camaign.

[shifty157]

WW1 was all about politics and you won't be able to successfully simulate this in the camaign.

Every war in history was all about politics. War is an extension of politics. Regardless politics in a game like this is impossible, unnecessary and unwanted. CA tried to throw politics into vanilla with the senate and the 3 factions but we see how well that worked. When was the last time you were more excited about your general getting a spot in the senate than your general gaining another command star? We want battles not politics. Maybe thats why they called it "total war" and not "total politics".

Anyway.

It seems you guys are off to a good start. I look forward to see how this mod progresses.

Good luck.

[Sundjata Keita]

True, politics are a part of every war. I'm just saying that the era around WW1 requires a more complex set of politics due to new national laws. How are you planning to include the USA?

[Bwian]

Of course the Great War wasn't entirely fought by soldiers sitting in trenches....

The trench system was a defensive fortification. The vast bulk of the war was also NOT spent in large set piece battles. Troops occupied trenches. Occaisionally, small scale raids were conducted, usually at night. Shellfire was swapped regularly, as were sniper bullets. Trenches were shelled....destroyed...repaired. And so it went on. Sometimes, if a perticularly useful shell-hole appeared, sappers would dig trenches out to it, to occupy it as a strongpoint. If you have ever seen some of the 'trench raiders' wepons...NASTY. Clubs wrapped in barbed-wire, axes, knives. Trench raids were a common tactic to get prisoners, information, and to strike fear in the enemy.

Then, every now and again, Field Marshal Haig would get the urge to re-site his drinks cabinet a few feet closer to Berlin, and a 'Big Push' would happen. Massive bombardments with millions of shells fired ( and about 2/3rds probably actually going bang... ) in abortive attempts to cut the wire. German WW1 wire was wicked stuff... ANd their dugouts were so deep the shells seldom damaged them. Then, over the top. A slow walk forward through bullets and counter-fire. If enough men were still alive when you got to the enemy trench, you might take it. If the reserves got up before the counter-attack, you might even hold it.

The big battles like Somme, Verdun, Ypres ( 1,2 and 3) were this sort of affair. There actually weren't that many 'big' battles. The death tolls in such offensives took a long time to recover from.

On the Russian front, though, the terrain was VERY different. IT was a lot more rugged, and far less suited to defending trenches. The terrain here ranged from mopuntainous regions through to swamps and marshland. Not places you could..or would...dig in!

Realistically...you would be foolish in the exteme to try and re-create this picture in it's entirety. Far better to take the START point of WW1, and use it's military advances to guide the development of the thing. You will have a lot of problems trying to follow either the economic or political background to WW1. Princip's assasination effort was both the catalyst and the excuse for war, in the light of a very complex political mess. The RTW AI is far too simplistic to do a good job of following the events.

The other area you are going to have BIG problems is with enemy battlefield AI. It has a rudimentary understanding of the basic weapon types. It thinks in terms of swords and spears, and will only really try to close into close quarters. If you attack it across no-mans land at the charge..it will counter charge. That would NEVER happen. There is also the archers tendancy to 'retreat' and keep firing. Again...in trench warfare, you would hold your ground and stay where the cover was best. I haven't seen any mods that really change the AI behaviour in these respects....

[The_Ferret]

You can change the AI people just cant be bothered. We will. Anyway, Total War games have the concept of letting you fight your own war. We aren't being tied down by what DID happen as it will be repetitive and boring. We'll start it as it started and you take it from there.

The USA will be a bit of a trade resource other than a faction, it will be non-playable.

Also, we wont get too bogged down in politics. We'll put in a few more modern options but thats it. It is after all, a WAR strategy game. Were going for as close to the war as possible but not too far from the TW concept.