Understanding Hannibal and Cannae -TV Heads Up!

[n00bicus]

There is no option for a tactical retreat in RTW, which Hannibal used in the centre. This means you would be wiser to station extra troops immediately behind the point you expect to be pushed back in.

All in all, you're better deploying like this:


As your cavalry hit the backs of the enemy on your flanks, they push into the centre, where they (and the now freed-up infantry from the flanks) hit the enemies centre in the flank and rear.

[EvilNed]

Of course, in the total war games, rarely does the enemy just "march on" with their entire army, like the romans did. At least in MTW there's always a couple of units trying to sneak past your flanks. These units can be stopped, of course, but might slow down your little maneuver.

Anyways, in MTW, I usually used a tactic just like that (without knowing how Hannibal did at first), but remember, there was so much more to hannibals tactic than just "run around to the rear and attack them with cavalry". He let his center infantry feign retreat, drawing the romans forward, whereas the reserves went up on the sides and the cavalry on the back. Thus: Romans in a box. A box made out of mercenaries, cutting away at anything latin-looking.

Is there anyway to download all these episodes of Time Commanders or even this program legally? Because I don't have Discovery Channel. Actually, i doubt I can even get it here.

[Puzz3D]

It's unlikely Hannibal used tactical retreat at Cannae, and it apparently wasn't even a tactic in ancient times once the lines engaged. He used a weak center which was probably routing when the flanking units closed in. He must have correctly judged how long his center could hold. So, I wouldn't say it should be a tactical opion in RTW, but, since everything is so speeded up in RTW, you can't re-enact such a battle with RTW despite the History Channel's Decisive Battles program giving the impression that you can. I think with the SPQR mod there is a much better chance of re-enacting ancient battles such as Cannae. You'll even get significant pushback by stronger forces on weaker forces since the fighting time is long enough for this to occur.


EvilNed,

Forget about the Discovery Channel programs. They are poorly done, and give a false impression of how RTW actually plays. I've never seen Time Commanders, but my European friends who did see the programs say that RTW doesn't play the way it did in those programs. Something changed before RTW was released or Time Commanders was given a special version of the game which had different gameplay.

[steve]

Sweet! i can make the 4pm airing thanks for the heads up!

[Atreides]

@ Puzz3D

I think you're wrong. Hannibal was brilliant. While outnumber with less quality forces he was able to win over and and over again.

But I think you should see the broadcast like the author (or me). Not say: 'I heard from my friend that, bla bla bal).

[EvilNed]

I actually think Hannibal ordered his iberian mercenaries (who formed up the front), to feign retreat, for one single reason: He didn't want to loose to many of then. Remember, his tactics were not only to kill the romans, but to loose as few of his own men as possible, since he didn't know if he would ever be getting any reinforcements.

[Lochar]

I saw this program last night, but what he did different than any game I played is match cavalry to cavalry first then went for the flanks.


I always use or try to, anti cavalry units first behind a spear line.


Also the AI never reacts the way the romans did, half the time they wont go for the main line but start chasing a weak unit.


The show was interesting, just showed if the carthagians actually backed hannibal when needed we could have been playing total rome carthage now...:)

As for Scipio being the better general, well he bought off Numidian cavalry, which while clever, made him win the day with numerous cavalry.


I try to use my skirmishers like hannbial did, but half the time they dont retreat fast enough and get mowed down by cavalry, unless I can see it developing ahead of time and have them run behind the lines. Sometimes I wonder if this was why units are not exactly side by side when forming single lines, in order to give your troops a place to run thru but heh they always l;ike to run thru my own formations and disrupt them.

[Red Harvest]

Hannibal did not do a tactical retreat. There was no reason to do that. And a tactical retreat could easily turn into a collapse (it would embolden the enemy.) He personally supervised the center of the line to make sure it held for the time needed. His whole plan hinged on holding the center long enough for his cavalry to win on the flanks, enveloping the Romans. His better disciplined African infantry were used to seal the flanks.

He used the same basic alignment at Trebbia. But at Trebbia the center ruptured, allowing 5,000 Romans or so to escape.

Scipio was brilliant, but if he had faced Hannibal's Italian campaign army at Zama, he would have lost. Hannibal nearly pulled it off despite having hastily trained citizen levies in his first line. It is not clear how many veterans he had managed to bring to Zama--certainly not his Iberian/Celtic cavalry. The key to Zama was that Rome now had Numidian cav as allies.

[Oaty]

One thing you have to wonder about. Both Carthage and Rome wrote about the battle. Unfortanately all of Carhtages history was burned to the ground. So the history we read are from those of the Roman army that are fleeing. Not a good way to learn about a battle.

Second what in the world did Hannibal and Scipio ever discuss in thier personel encounters.

[Puzz3D]

@ Puzz3D

I think you're wrong. Hannibal was brilliant. While outnumber with less quality forces he was able to win over and and over again.

But I think you should see the broadcast like the author (or me). Not say: 'I heard from my friend that, bla bla bal).

I didn't say he wasn't brilliant. I said his center was pushed back and probably routing. There is no way you can use this tactic in RTW.

I can't watch the Time Commanders show since it's only shown in Europe. Several of my European friends told me that the gameplay in the original Time Commanders programs was not like the gameplay in the RTW. I did watch several of the History Channel's Decisive Battles programs which used RTW, and they all gave a false impression of what you could do with the game.