Limiting Elite Units

[Turin]

So, how is EB going to keep the lower quality units from being totally ecplised in the later game?

Here's my idea, it's quite simple: training turns!

We all know that from most factions, money isn't much of a problem after about 20 years. So at that point a play just trains the most expensive units that he has tech for.

Obviously, historical armies were composed of not just elites. And training cost is not a feasible way of limiting elite proliferation.

You might notice that for the units with multiple training turns, there is rarely proliferation. One can have legionnaires all over the place but not Urban cohorts, they just take too long to train. Also, because 2 legion cohorts can beat 1 urban cohort, there is an intrinsic motivation to produce regular legions and thus keep things historically correct. The same thing can be said with legionnary cavalry versus Roman cavalry.
This training turns trick is especially useful with the pre-Marians. As those who have played a Roman campaign on 1.2 know, the Marius event is pushed back so there ends up being a proliferation of triarii and principe. There is no incentive to train hastati after principe become available. If you make hastati 1 turn to train and 2 turns for principe and triarii, then you have a big incentive to train hastati. To keep cavalry numbers at their historical levels, equite should take as long as 3 turns! The same thing can be done for all cavalry types in all factions. Historically there was always more infantry than cavalry in armies. But in RTW, cavalry predominates armies. I think higher maintaince costs and longer build times are in order to counter this.

[The Stranger]

that's true, but i think it's up to the player to decide if he wants to play historical or just for fun. a computer can't really decide and will never field a army of elites only, a human can so if he plays historical he won't too, but if he wants to play for fun i just might.

[SwordsMaster]

Well, I kinda agree, but.

If the only real difference between hastati and principes is experience, then wouldn´t it be possible to "unlock" the training of principes wen you get a unit of experienced hastati in the city?

Say you had an army of 4 hastati waring against the gauls. One of the units piked up 2 silver chevrons over a period of time. If you then walk that unit back to one of your cities you can upgrade it to principe even if your building level hasnt advanced. Wouldnt something like this be a better solution?

[The Stranger]

yeah and when you upgrade your bare-chested swordsmen armour and they are experienced you get a chosen swordsmen unit, but i don't that is possible, just have to wait for a few years.

[The Stranger]

btw experience isn't the only factor, money is too

[khelvan]

You can't retrain units to be something else. This isn't MTW in that respect, unfortunately.

[Divinus Arma]

So, how is EB going to keep the lower quality units from being totally ecplised in the later game?

Here's my idea, it's quite simple: training turns!

While I do not pretend to speak for them, I think the EB team has this pretty much under control. It has been discussed in other threads.

The mod will be realistic enough to where an army full of elites is pretty much a ridiculous proposition. Likewise, a full stack of just about anything is going to be a pain to raise and keep as well.

Browse some of the threads in this forum and you will find the answers to any question you may have.

This particular subject seems taken care of for sure, with a combination of training turns and unit price.

[Randal]

How about exagerating the cost differences. So if hastati cost 100 denari, principes would cost around 1000, with a slightly higher than normal upkeep.This way the game would start off with armies composed almost all out of hastati, then as you got richer you could afford to train more principes. With higher end units getting exponentially more expensive.

That wouldn't work. The roman army isn't supposed to consist of nothing but Hastati in 220BC, and then slowly start to include more and more principes. It's supposed to be a more or less equal division of Hastati, Principes and Triarii. Your method might work for the truly rare elite units (praetorians and such) but not for the early Romans.

Training turns ought to work better. Still, to be realistic, it ought to be a system enabling the Romans to build all three types of early legionaries from the start, with cost and build time balancing the amount you take in your armies. (As well as self control, of course. If you really want to, you'll probably always be able to build silly armies.)

[Shigawire]

Good points Turin. And this needs to be addressed.

[Urnamma]

Training turns is a solution that was mooted and dumped. We're using a combination of things now. I can tell you that anyone will only be able to train a few elite units, and they will remain just what they are: 'elite'!

[The Stranger]

as said before, i think it should be left too the player it self, i never saw the AI field a total elite army, and it never will. but the player can choose if he wants too play it the way he wants and compose the army he wants