Effects of discipline.

[Patron]

I noticed that byzantine infantry create seperate lines even when their unit is attacked from several fronts and some chivalric knights did the same after i trained them in a province with a military acadamy. Does discipline affect formations or is it just a morale bonus??

[ichi]

Welcome to the Org Patron

From Froggie's excellent guide

1.Disciplined means the unit is less likely to chase off after enemy units when it is in the impetuous morale state. It also means that the unit doesn't care about routing units on its own side unless they are of disciplined or elite status. The death of your general also has a reduced effect on disciplined units morale. This means that routing peasants and the like can no longer panic your army. If a unit does not possess disciplined status by default the only way to add it is to build the military academy in one of your production provinces. This will not add the disciplined tag to your unit but it will increase their discipline slightly. Units like knights still tend to be impetuous even with the discipline upgrade.

When a unit is placed in Hold Formation the men tend to stay in their place in the unit formation, on engage-at-will they break ranks and 'swarm', so they attack an enemy in their little space or sphere.

I'm pretty sure that discipline isn't a morale bonus, its somewhat different.

Hope that helps

ichi

[CBR]

Normally a unit will get a -8 morale impact from a general killed, lasting about 25 seconds, and then it will go down to a permanent -2 for the rest of the battle. Disciplined means that -8 modifier is not used and its only -2.

Disciplined units do get effected by routing non-elite/disciplined units but the effect as around half of what it would be if the unit wasnt disciplined. And same thing for elite units as they also get half morale impact from non-elite units routing nearby.


CBR

[Patron]

thx

I love killing generals.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Disciplined units are also generally very strong units, it would be ridiculous if those units ran away when a bunch of peasants routed. What units are disciplined other than Janissary Heavies, I have not gotten around to starting a new campaign and can't remember at the moment.

[mfberg]

Disciplined Cavalry:
Avar Nobles
Faris
Late Ghulam Bodyguards
Golden Horde Heavy Cav
Golden Horde Horse Archers
Kataphractoi
Sipahi of the Porte

Disciplined Infantry:
Abyssinian Guard
Byzantine Infantry
Early Varangian Guard
Dismounted Faris
Golden Horde Warriors
Janissary Archer
Janissary Heavy Infantry
Janissary Infantry
Naptha Throwers
Nubian Spearmen
Trezibond Archers
Varangian Guard

By Faction:
Byzantine gets Kats, Byz Inf, Naptha, Trez Archer, & VG
Egypt gets Late GB, Abyss Guard, Faris, Naptha, Nubian Spear
Turks get Late GB, Sipahi of the Porte, JA, JHI, JI, Naptha
Almos get Late GB, Faris, Naptha, Nubian Spear
Golden Horde gets GHHC, GHHA, GHW, Naptha
Everyone gets Avar Nobles

Disciplined counteracts uncontrolled a little, units are more responsive to your commands and will break off contact to attack another unit. Uncontrolled units will often chase routing units for several seconds before breaking contact.

mfberg

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Thanks for the list. I had thought discipline made them more responsive but I thought it may have just been me.

[Procrustes]

Wow, no Catholic units are disicplined? I hadn't noticed, but now I can't think of one that is.

[metatron]

Knights of Santiago are disciplined, IIRC.

[mfberg]

Nope, no christians are disciplined, but many are uncontrolled.

It affects the chance of being impetuous and "some other morale effects".

The two I missed were Byzantine Cav and Byzantine Lancers.

Uncontrolled Units - these are the guys that charge at the drop of a hat, preferably theirs.

uncontrolled cav
Chivalric Knights
Feudal Knights
Gothic Knights
Lancers
Medium Cavalry (Horsemen)
Polish Retainer
Royal Knigts (all eras)
Szekely
Teutonic Knights

uncontrolled infantry
Berserkers
Fanatics
Futuwwa
Gallowglass
Ghazi Infantry
Highland Clansmen
Nizari

mfberg

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Yeah, the christians were always much less disciplined than the muslims. I think it must have been due to culture, the Sultan was seen as the lord of all things, he was never deposed (that I can think of). Many christians were assassinated or deposed and there was always dissent and intrigue in the christian courts. Doesn't lend itself to trusting people in a military situation like you have to with disciplined troops.

[ajaxfetish]

The Joms Vikings are also impetuous if you're playing the expansion.

There was definitely intrigue and deposition in the Muslim courts just as there was in the west. The only one I can think of offhand is when the Mamluks seized control of Egypt in about 1250 or so, murdering the heir of the Ayyubid Sultan as he was about to take the throne and replacing the dynasty in power. Overall, Muslim armies were much more disciplined than their western counterparts, mostly I think because they were professional soldiers employed by the Sultan, Sheik, Caliph, Amir, Atabeg, etc. rather than feudal levies which were much more independent and less cohesive. In fact, Roger, the Norman ruler who conquered Sicily from the Muslims in the 11th century was so impressed with Muslim discipline that he started using mostly Muslim troops in his own armies (much to the Pope's chagrin), using them to keep his Christian, Norman, feudal barons under control.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Ph whoops, I meant the Turkish Sultan, I do not know as much about the other sultans. They were also professionals which would contribute to it.