Stop Bashing please!

[Swordsman]

I have accepted that every game published will be bugged to some degree. I don't like it, but I have accepted it. What separates the bad from the good (and the great) is how the game is supported AFTER it hits the streets.

Two examples:
1. "Domination", the sequel to "Massive Assault", just came out a couple of weeks ago. Has a couple of very annoying bugs-- not "game killers", but still a problem. They just issued a patch today.

2. "World at War" just came out this week-- per DEVELOPER on forum, they already are nearing release of a patch to fix some "annoying"-category issues (stats, AI, gameplay).

Meanwhile, RTW is basically out of luck. It MIGHT be fixed in the XP (many months away). The cumulative effect of all the bugs/features/imbalances is what bothers me-- not just any particular one. And much appears to be hard-coded. For everyone that loves vanilla RTW-- that's great, although I personally feel you are not getting the game experience you THINK you are because of all the "under the hood" problems. For everyone that is disappointed-- I daresay all would be forgiven if they would just keep popping out patches to address the significant, non-moddable, problems-- like MANY developers do. For some reason they just don't get it. When the XP comes along I will probably wait a month or so until all the experts on this forum get a chance to assess whether it really is an improvement before I buy it. Hope it doesn't just take all the old bugs and replace them with new, improved ones.

Until then, I'll get my fix with MTW and the ton of GREAT mods that exist for it.

Swordsman

[BobTheTerrible]

Exactly how were you "banished" Bob? What BS.

Well I didn't mean banished in the literal sense. Sorry, I usually don't use smileys in my text, there would have been a winking one right there. The .org is the most mature and tolerant total war forum I know. Although my reception to saying I thought the game was good enough to be considered a finished product (as opposed to a beta, as most people around here refer to it) wasn't exactly friendly, and ended up causing a notice for conduct appearing on the forums. I can't seem to find it, I think it's too old; the name of the thread was "In beta?" I think it ended up getting closed down.

I'm sorry that my post sounded too harsh and accusative, I didn't mean it like that... but to tell the truth I've been reluctant to post here ever since that incident, which is why I said "banished." I immediately saw the topic title, and realized this would quickly turn into another "customer support/buggy game/poor AI" thread.

This was just an informative post. Please, please, please nobody respond to this at all. I really don't feel like arguing or having this turn into a flame thread. If you want to say anything, don't do it here, because I will not be responsible for more flames. Send me a private message if anything. On a side note, I do think I owe the .org members an apology for my previous post(s).

[Red Harvest]

I see this thread and the others like it as more of a "live and let live" thing. I've not posted before in this thread because I don't see any reason to tell someone they shouldn't like the game, etc. If they like it as is, terrific. I'm glad they enjoy it. Wish I could, too.

I will argue heavily over demonstrable points of fact, but this thread is wholly an opinion thing, one purely of opinion/perception with no way to prove or disprove the original point. I post both pro and con about features in a game. My interest is in accuracy, not touchy-feely opinions.

Most "bashing" threads are oriented towards bug reports and frustration with the final state of the game. It has been 3 weeks since I played a real campaign turn. I keep thinking, "Tonight, I'll start a new one with yet more mods to fix broken parts of the 'final' game." Instead, I end up reading a book, testing some quirky RTW feature, or researching some aspect of history.

I will say one thing, if I titled a thread, "Stop Praising please!" it would look rather silly and pointless... (And I have posted praise threads on RTW before pointing at specific features that were well done. They didn't get many comments, even from those who are unabashed supporters of RTW.)

[FURRY_BOOTS]

Well I didn't mean banished in the literal sense. Sorry, I usually don't use smileys in my text, there would have been a winking one right there. The .org is the most mature and tolerant total war forum I know. Although my reception to saying I thought the game was good enough to be considered a finished product (as opposed to a beta, as most people around here refer to it) wasn't exactly friendly, and ended up causing a notice for conduct appearing on the forums. I can't seem to find it, I think it's too old; the name of the thread was "In beta?" I think it ended up getting closed down.

I'm sorry that my post sounded too harsh and accusative, I didn't mean it like that... but to tell the truth I've been reluctant to post here ever since that incident, which is why I said "banished." I immediately saw the topic title, and realized this would quickly turn into another "customer support/buggy game/poor AI" thread.

This was just an informative post. Please, please, please nobody respond to this at all. I really don't feel like arguing or having this turn into a flame thread. If you want to say anything, don't do it here, because I will not be responsible for more flames. Send me a private message if anything. On a side note, I do think I owe the .org members an apology for my previous post(s).

i remember that thread, & i was of the opinion that much of the anger was because of your intolerance of "noobs",
but lets not go there again
Oh, & Beefy, if you give devs too much praise(we LOVE your game, we worship you, your game is perfect, you can do no wrong) then they sit on their laurels & churn out any old crap(rome is not crap btw) i continually want better games, & if i have to flame/bash devs when its needed, then so be it.

[The Stranger]

i have been of the internet for a long while so, can someone please introduce me in this thread. what is this about. (i don't like to read all now cause i'm on school and this site is not allowed

[Shambles]

Hello there,

as you can tell, im relatively new to these forums! but a general feeling of dislike/flamming of RTW have appeared in these forums and many others.

Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played. Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.

Sure places like these forums are great for suggesting new ideas and improvements and for discussing RTW. but i have read many topics just plain bashing the hell out of the game with out weighing up the good points with the bad.

RTW was the game that tuned me from a strategy game hater into a lover!

I know many people that love this game as im sure 99% of the great people on this forum do also.

So please join me, when you see/read someone bashing the game, politely correct their thoughts (if you don't feel like politely use other methods) and make them realise the staggering amount of hard work and effort the CA put into making this game.

Beefy!

Thats what was said,

Then lots of bugs and issuse were pointed out,

some ppl said why they dissliked game, others said why they bash but still like game,
and some ppl Said silly things like The game is Great,

That should give you enogh info

[lismore]

The loadgame bug affects the unmodified game exactly as it does modified games. You clearly have done no research on this bug at all. Please refrain from making conclusions until you have done so. That goes for the thread creator as well.

Also, the incompetent artificial intelligence is caused, in part, by the loadgame bug. It's not altogether a seperate issue.

Fix it then dumby

[PilotusH]

Hi, first post from a Noob.

I like RTW overall and enjoy playing. It is a complex game with a lot to get to grips with for a new player.

But I do find the save game feature annoying. I tend to end up playing longer than I really should to get sieges of my towns resolved before I have to save. This means that other factions also have a chance to expand.

When I started I saved almost every turn and nobody expanded. My first campaign was a total rollover.

Saving frequently or otherwise makes an enormous difference to how a campaign develops. This surely can't be by design and should be addressed by CA.

[SpencerH]

I like your sig RH. You just need to add something like "...with the wrong tools".

[Cheater]

Guys, I didn't think that RTW was all that bad. Sure, I did have some problems with it, but some of those could be fixed with the Total Realism mod (which I will be downloading, soon), but even I have some petty little problems wit hthe game, namely the lack of certain other disasters that could happen to people, such as famine. So far I've seen floods and plagues, but no famines yet.

These are all the 'little' problems I have with it... stuff I'd like to be seen improved and fixed in later expansion packs and possibly the next in the Total War series.

I have to admit, I do a lot of bashing and heavy criticism myself every now and then on many subjects, but when all is said and done, remember this: It's just a game, don't take anything too seriously.

[Cendre]

I know many people that love this game as im sure 99% of the great people on this forum do also.
So please join me, when you see/read someone bashing the game, politely correct their thoughts (if you don't feel like politely use other methods) and make them realise the staggering amount of hard work and effort the CA put into making this game.
Beefy!

We recognize the work put in, it's the staggering little amount of hard work CA put into fixing the game after it was released that is making us angry...
For my part I love(d) the game, but as I went further and further in my Juli campaign the bugs and weak AI crept up and made the game pointless. As an example, I find it's impossible to loose to the roman AI when they siege your town with walls and you sally out (the AI just let you crush them with missile fire and do nothing)...

[player1]

I myself like this game a lot.

I must admit some bugs hit me hard. Like HorseAcrher problem or Scarface bug. Eventually, I learned a way to fix them by moding.


Now, I have only a of bit probelm with two bugs, which are directly related to challenge level of the game.

First one, as eveyone knows is save/load bug, which makes AI passive after reloads.

The second one, is problem with difficulty levels in battles. on higher difficulties, instead of AI getting better stats and morale, to force you rely on tactics more, battles are only faster, since both you and AI get bonuses.


Now, if only these two bugs are fixed, I would praise this game.

[Mikeus Caesar]

The loadgame bug affects the unmodified game exactly as it does modified games. You clearly have done no research on this bug at all. Please refrain from making conclusions until you have done so. That goes for the thread creator as well.

Wow, step away from the keyboard. Just calm down, and listen. I had done research on this bug, but unfortunately:

A) It says pretty much no where that it affects RTW vanilla. From what i can find, people only say it affects 1.1 and 1.2. Sorry if i don't know everything, but i'm not a super-genius!!!

B) Unlike most panicky people who think they will get a CTD everytime they click end turn so they always save, i don't save so often, which is why i have prolly never encountered the bug. I play on RTW for an hour or so, and then save and quit.

And as for you Shambles, if you have a problem with this game, and have nothing better to do than preach to us all about RTW being crap, then (pardon my french) bugger off to the MTW forums, where you can talk to your hearts content about the supposedly better game. Just don't come here moaning about how RTW is an expensive paper-weight.

[Bhruic]

A) It says pretty much no where that it affects RTW vanilla. From what i can find, people only say it affects 1.1 and 1.2. Sorry if i don't know everything, but i'm not a super-genius!!!

Well, it does affect v1.0, but per your (B)...

B) Unlike most panicky people who think they will get a CTD everytime they click end turn so they always save, i don't save so often, which is why i have prolly never encountered the bug. I play on RTW for an hour or so, and then save and quit.

Actually, I'm sure your games have encountered it, although you personally may not have seen it. I mean, I played dozens of games, and until I knew of the bug, and actively looked for it, I never really noticed it either. But that's the insidious nature of the bug, it tends to affect the parts of the map you don't really see (unless you play with FoW off), so you don't tend to observe it.

Bh

[Aetius the Last Roman]

This is just stupid,
How can an open forum like the .org just censor views because it upsets you.
Profanity and sexual explicitness maybe but I think I capture the spirit of the .org when I say that this is an open forum and not a politically-correct fascist republic.

[Benny Moore]

Versions one point one and one point two are both "vanilla." "Vanilla" means that the game is not modified. And the bug affects all versions equally.

[The Wizard]

I see the potential of this game, and I look at my experiences with its predecessors, and what do I see? Waste! Horrible, terrible waste of potential! It could have been so challenging, so engrossing, but it turns out to be a rushed product at the whims of a publisher, with many bugs, but most terribly an AI that I can abuse, fool, and trick, rather than cross swords with on an equal level. Besides that, the tactical engine seems to have been simplified and cavalry grossly overpowered.

And to top it all off, I look at Blizzard Entertainment and see its support to its games, and its openness to its customers, and then I look here, and I see two little patches which fix some bugs. Admittedly, 1.02 is an improvement upon vanilla, certainly, but no real effort has been made to make the AI smarter, to improve the tactical engine, so that I actually have a challenge to look forward to. Never mind that the enormous amount of historical innacuracies I see as a fan of military history! The gameplay remains more important.

Then I look back at WarCraft III's 18 patches, StarCraft's (!) latest patch, and WoW's patching (not to mention polish), and people wonder why I play this game constantly annoyed, and put effort into things such as Europa Barbarorum.



~Wiz

[Jonny Dangerously]

Good for you Beefy.

I think it's a brilliant game, I also think it has some bugs.

This being said, I'm f*cked off with the amount of relentless and unbalanced b*tching that goes on about the game. I'm not talking about the diligent members who work hard to isolate the bugs and bring it to the attention of CA. I'm talking about the whinging, whining @rse monkies who seem to have nothing better to do than log onto this site so they can big themselves up by visciously slamming the game. You know the type of person I'm talking about.....their posts usually start with something like "I've just played my 203rd campaign on VH VH as the Dacians and won in 8 minutes, this game is sh*t.......blah blah blah blah". (read: "I think I'm incredibly clever and I want you all to know it")

I have also noticed that if you try and defend the game you generally get accused of being some kind of noob or idiot.........well I think the game is excellent, and I've been playing TW since the Shogun days.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that if you criticise the level of negative, unconstructive criticism that goes on here, you get accused of being technically ignorant.

Good for you Beefy, many people feel exactly the same way as you.

[Belenus]

If the load game bug was fixed, I would be playing RTW at this moment. But since it isn't fixed, I'm not touching it. I bought RTW so I could see countries expand and fall, and to fight epic battles, not to watch everything stagnate and fight stacks of tier one troops. :(

[Craterus]

If the load game bug was fixed, I would be playing RTW at this moment. But since it isn't fixed, I'm not touching it. I bought RTW so I could see countries expand and fall, and to fight epic battles, not to watch everything stagnate and fight stacks of tier one troops. :(

Cool name, I had a Briton general named Belenus the Conqueror and I had a row of 4 Heroic Victories down to the Italian Peninsula on the road from Iuvavum..

Anyway, on topic, I've never experienced the loadgame bug, do you use mods? Does it come with some of the mods?

[AntiochusIII]

It is confirmed, Craterus, albeit not by "officials." And it has much more effects than "siege lifting." Generally all aspects of AI decision has been disturbed, including diplomacy, production, and, of course, military. They proved many points in various tests

I don't mind it that much, personally, though.

Anyway:

BASH!

[Red Harvest]

groan...the loadgame bug has NOTHING to do with mods. Despite the best efforts of CA to cast doubt on those reporting and testing for the trouble, this is not "user error." You don't "see it" because you don't test for it and you have always lived with it unawares. (Like the pri/sec bug...) The game looks roughly the same as it always had, with incomprehensible AI moves as one proceeds through a campaign. But those incomprehensible moves now appear to be strongly related to the loadgame bug. So until it was researched, some were blissfully ignorant of the problem. Others of us were unhappy with the effects it was having on the game...but didn't know what the nemesis was. Now we have more insight into what is causing the problems.

This goes a long way toward explaining why the AI puts up a better fight early in the game too. Early in the game most of us can play through many turns without needing to reload. Whereas late game we probably play 2 to 5 turns before needing to leave the game and later reloading to carry on.

[starkhorn]

Anyway, on topic, I've never experienced the loadgame bug, do you use mods? Does it come with some of the mods?

No it's part of the hard-code of the game it seems. It's there in 1.0 although my experience has shown it not to be as profund as in v1.1 and v1.2.

Despite comments from MikeB weeks ago on .com, trying to suggest that RTR mods may have been responsible for the bug, this is clearly not the case after simple testing.

TRy it out for yerself. :)

Cheers
Starkhorn

[Wishazu]

I just came in to bash and flame Beefy; got to admire a person that can be as loyal as a good dog.

kinda sad that someone like you who ive seen on these forums for ages feels he has to come in and act like a child by saying that.

[Craterus]

What's FoW? I need to know these things before I can fully understand other's posts.. sorry for the stupid question

[starkhorn]

I believe it means Fog of War. :) i.e. there is some sorta cheat code that lets you see the entire map with all pieces and settlements or something like that.

I've not tried it myself though so.......

Cheers
STarkhorn

[Craterus]

what's the cheat? I'm always interested in my campaigns to know how other factions are doing... In my egyptian campaign I know almost nothing of Europe.. Apart from when I sent a diplomat from Pegamum over the Dardanelles to Byzantium and then through Thrace, Dacia, to Italy but he died before he reached Arretium lol...

[HeresiarchQin]

*Bashes the game*










Nah, this is actually quite a good game. Few games could make me spend (waste?) time more than 3 months on it.

[Bhruic]

what's the cheat? I'm always interested in my campaigns to know how other factions are doing... In my egyptian campaign I know almost nothing of Europe.. Apart from when I sent a diplomat from Pegamum over the Dardanelles to Byzantium and then through Thrace, Dacia, to Italy but he died before he reached Arretium lol...

Hit ~, then type "toggle_fow" (without the quotes). Typing it again will turn the fog back on again.

Bh

[Craterus]

does it mess up the game at all? sorry but i'm always cautious when i put cheats into any game