whats your favourite MTW Mod?

[Duke Dick]

After seeing the praise that was heaped on VH mod by that wargamer site, i decided i wanted to see what everyones favourite mod is.

Just post which ones you have played, and which one is your favourite and why. Also, I don't want this turning into a flamathon...friendly banter between fans of mods is ok, but don't go too overboard.

I have played: XL Mod, BKB Super Mod, Shogun Mod.

My favourite has to be BKB's super mod. The scope and depth of it make MTW even more enjoyable to play. So many new things to see and play around with, and the amount of blood, sweat and tears gone into it is blatantly obvious.

[mikkele]

I have played both BKB and VH's XL mods. I can relate to your preference for the BKB mod, although I gave up on it, due to stability problems (the game would repeatedly crash on my PC for some odd reason). So I'm currently playing the VH mod, which I also like. Some thoughts:

BKB mod:
+ Large number of factions
+ The Asian/Russian factions seems more developed
+ Seems more historically correct, with more details.
- A few odd bugs (for instance, I got attacked in Rum by the English, although I had all surrounding provinces - should be impossible, but alas it happened - and it was not a rebellion)
- Large load times (at least on my rig)
- A total overwrite, cannot play original game (AFAIK)
- Sometimes the vast number of new unit types can be annoying/overwhelming, especially because the real difference between units are limited (there's after all only a few parameters to modify). And you (I) don't want your (my) army to consist of umpteen different unit types, since that makes combining unit fragments more difficult.

XL mod:
+ Reasoneable load times, and more stable (for me)
+ No or few odd bugs (at least I have not met any yet :-) )
+ The revamped economic system not so dependent of trade.
- Asian/Russian factions seems under-developed, only a few special units, of which several only apply to the early era.
+/- Not as huge as BKB in terms of factions and units, but it also IMO makes for a more balanced and focused game.

I can understand why some call XL mod a "BKB Lite" mod, although I regard XL as a fine piece of work in its own right. At the risk of offending BKB, I would peg XL as the best balanced mod. The BKB mod seems to contain everything the author could think of throwing in it, which for the most part is fine. But as indicated above, sometimes it is almost too much.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The BKB mod seems to contain everything the author could think of throwing in it, which for the most part is fine. But as indicated above, sometimes it is almost too much.

I don't mind criticism, but quotes like that are what get to me. There's a lot of people out there who seem to get the allusion that my mod is just pure eye candy. I have not just made new units and added factions; trade and economy have been adjusted with new buildings helping factions money problems, especially the weaker ones. Balancing economies was a painstakingly long process - I doubt any non-modders would have a concept. I have added three new maps for each period which took long arduous hours of getting it as accurate as possible for both historical and gameplay reasons. Hundreds of heroes (which everyone has overlooked) have been added, with every faction in the game having at least one, most having about 8. This took hours of research, all of this in turn sounds a little different to what you have described but hey what do I know.

Your remark above is saying I have basically threw as much in to the melting pot as possible, giving no time or care to the finished product and just gave it to fans in a sorry state and that, as I'm sure you could understand, really pisses me off. Every piece of criticism I have encountered I have done my best to amend. I searched all the pages of the BKB thread and made sure nothing was missed and I listened and took note of everyone's opinion, whether valued or not.

Large load times (at least on my rig)

Thats not really my problem I'm afraid and not really a downfall on the mods part.

- A total overwrite, cannot play original game (AFAIK)

Since when the hell was this ever a problem?!? I warned you beforehand, and by this reckoning the Hellenic mod, Middle Earth mod and Napolean mod are bad also.

Sometimes the vast number of new unit types can be annoying/overwhelming, especially because the real difference between units are limited (there's after all only a few parameters to modify). And you (I) don't want your (my) army to consist of umpteen different unit types, since that makes combining unit fragments more difficult.

You're essentially saying that there is little or no point to the units I have added. I have made each faction have a wide range of differing units because the original game lumbered alot of faction's units together and that just wasn't accurate. Plus they aren't just 'clones' - these are all new units graphically in some way, and differ statistically. I can see I suppose how the amount of units might be a little "overwhelming", but I am planning a tech tree so that might make things a little clearer for people downloading the mod. A small patch will be released to clear up a few mistakes.

I think I'm speaking for all modders here when I say that most (non-modders) do not realise how much work goes into a mod and only modders can understand why statements like that would infuriate me.

And for the record my favourite Medieval mod is the Fall of Rome mod, one which I feel doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

BKB

[ichi]

Really like the Shogun Mod, based solely on the fact that I enjoyed STW. Set on Hard the mod is hard, at least for the first 50 years.

ichi

[metatron]

I've been playing Fall of Rome lately, and I love it.

[Duke Dick]

BKB, I usually always back up what you say, but I asked in my first post not to turn this into a flamathon. You have gone against this with your response...seriously if a person prefers some other mod over yours, just let it wash off your back. There are a large number who prefer yours over the XL mod, just like myself.

That is just mikkele's opinion, and i agree with some of the criticisms he levels at you. Your mod can be intimidating to some due to the excessivness of everything, and it is a lot harder than most, which is something i see as a positive.

Also, why do you say I think I'm speaking for all modders here when I say that most (non-modders) do not realise how much work goes into a mod and only modders can understand why statements like that would infuriate me. He never once said your effort was lacking. He knows that a lot of effort was put into your mod, but thats not the point.

If you want to say something aggressive in response to a post, please use the PM option instead of letting it out for all to see.

[masaki86]

piophohp

[mfberg]

I enjoy playing Napmod and BKB, but I like my little changes to the game the best (they are just slight changes, not a real mod).

mfberg

[doc_bean]

I've only played NTW, which was great, especially the historical battles I thought they might have added a little too much to the strategic portion (translation: i didn't figure out what aal the buildings were for).

I've only finished 2 MTW campaigns, and 1 VI one, MTW by itself still overwhelms me at times (though I don't like how the unit selections got dumbed down in RTW).

It will be a while before I am ready for something like VH's or BKB's mod

[caravel]

The BKB mod and the XL mod are not perfect, like most things including mtw itself. The BKB mod is much more historically accurate, but if you don't like it don't make a ridiculous 'review' on it, simply don't install it and don't play it. And both the XL and BKB mods clearly state that the original game will be overwritten and unplayable, and if you want the original back you'll have to reinstall mtw and VI again. If this bothers you then don't install the mods in the fisrt place.

I have criticised both mods on the other board, but not destructively. The BKB mod IS complex, the map is a little blurry in my opinion, but apart from that it's one of the best FREE mtw modifications out there, and a hell of alot of work has gone into it's production. The XL mod is smaller but fixes some of the key issues with the game and adds a few factions, that were omitted and/or misrepresented in the game. It doesn't go as far as BKB though, and depending on what you want out of the game that is either a good or bad thing.

The best improvements of BKB is it's new factions, trade goods, units and buildings as well as the numerous fixes to the AI and game balance. Also BKB contains more graphics created or adapted by the author, or his associates. XL contains very few new graphics, but does have new units, new factions, removal of land bridges and improved naval AI as does BKB. I have not encountered bugs in BKB, but in XL I have found a bug with the naptha throwers. (The naptha throwers were removed in the XL mod and replaced by the naptha catapult. The problem is that naptha throwers can still appear as part of a rebellion or loyalist uprising, so you get 24 naptha throwers manning a naptha catapult. This is going to be patched though.)

Also if people think modding a game is easy they should try it, you'll be up till 3 or 4am going through mtw's tiresome scripts and you'll have to read up on the subject first and conduct further research via the net on the arms, customs, geography royal line, titles of office, miltitary order, and alot more, of every single faction. I'm currently trying to mod the north african area to include the correct factions for the early period. Modding africa as playable was enough of a headache, so I can imagine what a mod on the scale of BKB or XL would be like.

The mods are primarily designed for veteran players that find the original mtw too easy and want something different and more accurate. If you're not in this category and you still haven't got the basic mtw worked out then maybe mods are not for you. I don't install these mods at all as I'm currently working on my own mod that is focused only on the muslim factions, this won't be distributed because I don't have the time to make anything on the scale or quality of XL or BKB out of it.

Neither of this mods is superior to the other. Many may argue that they both try to do the same thing. This is wrong. The BKB mod aims to convert the mtw campaigns into something very different and very much more complex and extended, it achieves this goal. The BKB mod simply aims to fix many of those annoying things in mtw that get up most people noses, while adding new units and some new factions that should, arguably, have been in the original game, and it does this well.

The conclusion I have come to is that the BKB is for the advanced mtw veterans that are bored and want something new without going to rtw, or maybe the've played that and have come back to mtw with the BKB mod.

THe XL mod is for the not so brave. It is for those that are familiar with the game and would like to see their country represented in it, land bridges removed, and naval AI fixed among other things, but without chaning too much of the games unit stats and tech tree.

BKB XL

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

An excellent post well done, fair and unbiased, and masaki what the hell are you up to? Shut up and you might save yourself a banning. If a moderator sees this your buggered mate

[Duke Dick]

a great read beorthwulf. I agree with al ot of what you say, and thing your description of both mods is spot on!!

Top Class post is that!!

[Pindar]

To the Blind King,

Sir,

I didn't know nor have I heard of your mod. I am interested. Where can I learn of your project and download it?

Hello, I just found the sticky in the Engineer's Guild. Any website or other information is appreciated.

[Biggus Diccus]

... but I am planning a tech tree so that might make things a little clearer for people downloading the mod.

Sounds great!

[Gushnasaph]

oh, and bkb mods exceptionally shit as well. how faggots like you duke dick like it is beyond me.

I think this calls for a ballon

Strangely, MedMod always crashed on me in late. BKB and VH have both made great mods.

The best things in life are free.

[Kekvit Irae]

The only reason why I havent worked on my own mod lately is because of my frustration at my inability to fix the CTD bug when going into combat. Remember, my mod isnt like MedMod, or HTW, or NTW. It's done 100% by one person, me. That would most likely be why people dont like my mod, nothing new and it crashes. I know I dont.

[Es Arkajae]

I've heard good things about this Medmod, does anyone here have an actual link to a DESCRIPTION of the mod.

I found the download site easily enough, but I would like to see what it changes, what kind of new units or rules it employs and so on before downloading it.

And is the troll correct?, the Medmods creator is dead?, if so is the mod still being updated for any bugs by others?

[Kekvit Irae]

I've heard good things about this Medmod, does anyone here have an actual link to a DESCRIPTION of the mod.

I found the download site easily enough, but I would like to see what it changes, what kind of new units or rules it employs and so on before downloading it.

And is the troll correct?, the Medmods creator is dead?, if so is the mod still being updated for any bugs by others?

The creator is very much alive. And here is his website.

[Es Arkajae]

Good to hear about the creator mate, but I already knew about the second site you provided, the 'newby' guide to Medmod won't download, as in IE says the site to download it from is down or gone.

And theres no actual description of anything at the site, just downloads for the mod and some excel files (I don't use excel).

No offence and I apologise if I've missed something but its a pretty damned crappy home site for a mod if it includes no information on it.

[Kekvit Irae]

Good to hear about the creator mate, but I already knew about the second site you provided, the 'newby' guide to Medmod won't download, as in IE says the site to download it from is down or gone.

And theres no actual description of anything at the site, just downloads for the mod and some excel files (I don't use excel).

No offence and I apologise if I've missed something but its a pretty damned crappy home site for a mod if it includes no information on it.

The readme works just fine.
Are you sure you clicked this link?
I've taken the liberty to host the readme on my website for you, at this link.

[Es Arkajae]

Oh okay thanks mate, I didn't check the Readme, I assumed it would just be like other games Readmes files just listing technical stuff and hadn't thought it wouldbe useful.

I tried to open the actual 'newbie' guide at the bottom and thats what didn't work.

Thanks again mate.

[Odin]

I use the XL mod, its great. NTW is also a wonderful mod, but there is only so much you can do with the AI... I just got tired of being charged over and over again. Perfectly normal for MTW, but highly improbably that there would be a direct frontal assault to my Prussian lines...

I must say that the hostility that arises when the mod subject comes up can flavor the desire of the lay folk like me toward one mod or another. I know this thread isnt about that, but any one who observes the org forums and the mod discussions on MTW would be remiss if they didnt note this very real aspect of the mods.

For me I appreciate all the hard work, but frankly am not emotionally committed to any mod. Its a free download that someone is generous enough to offer to users like me, and while a degree of appreciation is definately in order, it should be tempered with the knowledge that most of us are pretty nuetral as to who's is better, or preference.

Just keep producing free enhancements and everything will be cool, hopefully the knowledge that your hundreds of hours of thankless labor goes to supplementing users expirence like me, who for the most part are apathetic to your plight, should be enough reward to continue forth and increasing the features and functionality of your chosen work.

[Duke Dick]

are there any other mods I should look at apart from the initial three i have said i have played. I know there are some, but what ones would you reccomend?

[Pericles]

Being a modder myself, I know how much work goes into making a mod for a game. Most players really don't have any idea of the work/time that is involved in it...

Be gentle and kind to modders...

My suggestion would be for most modders to return to modding MTW, and to turn out some real gems for MTW...

This would send a clear message to CA developers that the load/save game bug in RTW is not only killing the game itself, but it is also killing any modding efforts for it as well.

This would be bring back a resurgence in MTW as a game and in MTW modding...

Cheers!

[Aurelian]

It's too bad that RTW is so flawed, but it does mean that there will be more life for the MTW mods. In particular, I'd like to see the Hellenic Total War group switch their attention back to the MTW engine for the Bronze Age mod they've been working on in RTW. MTW needs a Bronze Age mod, and the HTW team already had chariots and such in HTW. Maybe if we ask really nicely?

So far, I've played:

Wes's MedMod
BKB's Super Mod
VH's XL Mod
Maximus' Fall of Rome mod
Hellenic Total War
NTW

They're all good mods, but they offer different things, so it's hard to pick a favorite.

SuperMod and XL Mod are both excellent, and they offer some of the same things in terms of extra factions and units; but to me, the biggest difference is in the economic models. SuperMod offers more opportunities to raise money, and you generally start with more units. XL Mod starts you off with a tighter money supply and fewer units. Try playing the English in Late in both mods and you can see the difference.

By the way, I want to give BKB full props for all the great work on unit creation, new buildings, and on having three maps available. There is so much available that it's hard to comment generically, but I particularly enjoyed being able to play the Almoravids and Norwegians in Early, and having full plate armored English in Late. The Normans in Sicily were also more accurate and fun.

I do understand though what Mikkele was saying about the drawback of having so many different unit types available. Crusades tend to pick up lots of little packets of different unit types. They can't combine with other units, and so you end up with Crusades that are even more fragmented than usual. That's just an unavoidable side effect of increasing the number of unit types available.

I agree with BKB that Fall of Rome hasn't gotten the attention it deserves yet. It's quite a good mod, with a very complete and accurate unit roster for the Late Roman period. I particularly like the way Maximus managed to transform Crusades into barbarian migrations. It works. Worth a look. There is a new update out soon.

HTW is also quite good. The graphics in particular are worth a look as all the units are newly created from 3D models. Very accurate, clean, and impressive graphics. The historical battles are also very good representations of the real events and worth a play through. The campaigns are fun, but I got a little overwhelmed by the size of the armies that started to appear. The Persians, in particular, roll in with stacks of a dozen armies at a time. Eeek.

It's been too long since I've played it to comment meaningfully on MedMod. I wish that Wes was healthy and interested enough to complete the update he was working on a while back.

I feel similarly about NTW. For some reason, I was never able to get into it enough to be able to offer meaningful comment. Might be the subject matter. Might be the fact that the engine just doesn't quite work for Napoleonic warfare. I will mention that they managed to create moving artillery, which is pretty cool.

[Ulair]

Can we pin Beorhtwulf's post up somewhere as the last word in the XL vs. Super debate...? Great post.

And from someone who's played none of the mods but is beginning to think about it - thanks to all the modders out there who put in weeks of time just for us. I work in software management for a living and I can't help thinking about the investments these folk make. Say they could charge their time at a modest £500 (c. $800, 800 euros) per day (pretty competetive consultancy rate, that). A week is £2,500. Say they put in 10 weeks solid on a mod (and I've no idea how much mod that buys you) - that's £25,000 of R&D work given by them, to us. Free. Gratis. For nothing.

Open source is free software, but it's not free software.

Thanks, guys!