The Age of Mankind: Total War

[dimitrios the samian]

Hi Lonely ,,,
Why don't you start by making one part of it ? ... keep it simple .
I reckon the Maya Mod would be awesome and not to difficult to pull off .
I have seen it mentioned once for MTW but nothing came of it .
I beleive many people would be more interested in this as opposed to a Total Age Mankind one you propose , as it borders on fantasy and would take tens of thousands of hours of work .
History around Central America is still fuzzy .. So a lot can be done without having to be 100% correct - ofcourse their isn't any cavalry and troop types are somewhat limited but variety can still be had and battles would still be exciting and colourfull .
The thought of a totally new world to conquer excites me !! and if the opportunity arises I would become involved - but Iam not a modder just a Total War player who someday would like to see Central America , South East Asia , and Mesopotamia be touched on.
to all

[Lonely Soldier]

dimitrios the samian - Maybe you're right... Though I would hope that the mod would not be seen as fantasy - I prefer the term theoretical history.



General Announcement

If there truly is no way to get around this model limit and all the other limitations of this "most mod friendly total war game ever" - perhaps the expansion will help with this, though considering CA's recent efforts, I doubt it - then it'll probably end up not being made. My main aim is to do something original, exciting and innovative. But now that I seem to have been thwarted in this aim I may need to conceed to a massively truncated version of the original concept or not doing the mod at all.

[buujin]

There is also no such thing as religion in rome, and afaik u cant make new cultures.

No offence, but its all fine and dandy having an imaginative idea, but have you actually researched much into what can and cant be done with the rtw engine?

Also are u skinner, and moddeller and scripter ? or do u expect other people with those skills to jump on your bandwaggon and do all the hard work.

[The_Ferret]

You said you'd like to use the work of other mods if they'd let you... We'll let you use our WWI:TW mod if and when it finishes For the Early 20th century.

[Simetrical]

And, of course, RTR would let you use any of our work with permission and attribution. So would almost all the mods, come to that, at least after they release it themselves.

-Simetrical

[Lonely Soldier]

Simetrical and the Ferret - thanks!

buujin - I am not a skinner, modeller or scripter. That is why I posted on my role in the mod and on my limitations. What am I supposed to do if I have an idea - and some of the skills required -, but I don't have all the technical know-how? What would you do if you found yourself without talent or inclination in these areas? Would you slave away yourself and produce crap work? Or would you do as much as you could with what you had and ask interested and willing people to assist you? Also, why can you build temples etc. if there is no religion in Rome? This is all that I meant by my comments on religion. The fervour thing could just be an effect on loyalty.


I have thought about the model limit thing - even if we have 9 eras and 19 factions, each one will get 3/4 units per era, and that's without model double ups - which should give us a lot more to play with!

[buujin]

If i really wanted something to be created, i would teach my self how and what needs doing, and then start the project on my own.

Once people see a work in creation rather than just what u want them to do, im sure they would be more inclined to help out and become part of a team.

I doubt anyone would be willing to put the hundreds of hours required into working on this mod, while having you dictate what they should do and evenually claim responsibility for the finished product.

Whoever has these formentioned talants and actually puts in their time and effort should claim lot more credit and have a lot more power in the project than the person who's original plan it was.

Sorry to dishearten you, but almost anyone can come up with a good idea.

Besides all of this, i suspect 99 percent of the decent moddellers and skinners for rome out there are already engaged in other very time consuming projects, this is why so many people's " ideas for a great mod " never go any further than that, an idea.

My Advice: teach yourself to mod , and then start modding.

[Lonely Soldier]

Anyone and everyone who worked on the mod would be appropriately credited.

I would not want to be seen as dictating, so much as focussing the teams efforts (I know I'm putting a positive spin on this, but it is closest to what I would want to be).

"Whoever has these formentioned talants and actually puts in their time and effort should claim lot more credit and have a lot more power in the project than the person who's original plan it was."

What if the idea had never been had anyway? The modellers etc. wouldn't have even had any work to be credited for. I agree that they should have considerable weight in decision making, but they are not being forced to do any of this work. If they were being paid an unfair salary then I could see your point, but the work anyone does on a community project is purely voluntary. Have you actually read the whole thread? It seems that you are making judgements about my input without having any notion as to what it entails.

Also, if I were to teach myself to model/skin (which I have found myself to be inept at ), would I also have to fill the position of scripter etc. myself?

I also agree that people would be more interested if they saw something in the works. I also agree that most of the modellers and skinners are already on other projects - don't you think that new people might turn up?

I would rather that this thread not descend into a two-way conversation, so please PM me if you wish to continue this discussion.

General Announcement

I will soon begin work on the new campaign map - I have almost finished learning the basics - Thanks to Mr. Hide over at the TWC for his excellent program, though I am also teaching myself manual (.txt file) editing.

[Lonely Soldier]

The first section of the mod will probably be the Asian component, an Americas component will be released seperately after that.

The release of the mod will probably run along in this way until we find ways to get around some of the more fatal limitations of the engine, so we can release the entire world map version.

I will also be adding concept art and further units to the unit post, we will choose the best of these to feature in the mod.

[GaugamelaTC]

Will you still have units from all ages?

[Lonely Soldier]

GaugamelaTC - I should have specified: the mod will either be released in geographical sections (Americas, Asia etc.) with multiple eras, or as a whole world map version with maybe only 1 or 2 eras.

[Lonely Soldier]

I have added some concepts for the Incas to the Units post. (they turned out really huge ... is their a way to reduce the display size?

[Ianofsmeg16]

hi, are you going to include a map of north America? cos i have a great map of the positions of North American Tribes if you want it?

[Lonely Soldier]

ian_of_smeg16 - Thanks! That would be most useful !

In terms of the size of the map, I will aim for a good balance between epic scale and performance - if having a huge map kills the performance on the average player's system then the benifits of a large map may be outweighed by the negatives.

The campaign map will probably also feature new texturing and features - different kinds of desert, jungle etc. if it turns out to be possible...

Regarding the UI: the ultimate result would be for every faction (or at least culture) to have their own unique UI suitable for their aesthetic style. But, as this was not present in the original game, it is probably impossible.

[Ianofsmeg16]

[IMG]haus019[1][/IMG]

This may or may not work cos i am shamefully a newbie , therefore had trouble figuring out how to insert the pic

[richyg13]

hey, your idea is promising in my opinion but your realy gonna need a team for this one. I'm making my own mod based just before the Vinilla RTW is set (fictional setting) where you start with very basic troops and can develop more hardy troops as your cities get bigger but everyone has the same troop base so everyone is equal. My mod lacks depth however and i dont expect it to provoke too much interest... your mod however is lending much more depth.

I have thought about the model limit thing - even if we have 9 eras and 19 factions, each one will get 3/4 units per era.

remember you can use the same model for several factions if not all except with different skins, its more the unit limit you should be concerned with (i think its 300) but again you can use the same unit for several similar factions.

Mongol, Chineese and Japanese Peasants can use the same unit definition for example giving you 2 extra units to play with.

I'm a fairly experienced texture artist (4 years just about off and on) so i could lend a hand if you want. You'll have to find some1 to supply me with models tho cus im a terrible moddler :P

[GaugamelaTC]

Wow that's great news richyg- that means there could be very different looking units. I was thinking for any possible boomerang warriors, which animation would you use lonely soldier. I think you might be able to use the slinger one, but make the boomerangs only move back and forth, as if they were aiming and warming up?

[Lonely Soldier]

ian_of_smeg16 - You have used the right code, but you need to have the image hosted on a web page - here is a good, free image hosting page:
http://www.imageshack.ws/ .

richyg13 - Great! I will definitely take you up on that offer once we have found a good modeller! You may be able to do something with those concepts I posted for the Incas (we just need to decide which pre-existing model would make a good template).
And thank you for reminding me of the multiple skins option! The 3 Chinese factions would all have similar units to one another (cutting down considerably on model use!) and, depending on which direction we go in terms of design, other factions may end up with quite similar units/unit types to one another.
Also, we will probably be able to use many of the models already present in the game as templates.

GaugamelaTC - I tend to agree, the slinger animations would probably be the closest, and therefore would require the fewest changes.

The new version of Mr.Hide's map editor is out! I will now start to make the new map!

I have also added some more reference shots: for the Chinese and Indians.

[richyg13]

I've started work on the Inca Slinger texture using the Barbarian Slinger model. Only trouble is i cant create the whole tunic idea with no trousers therefore they're gonna have to wear trousers for now.



I've done my best to get a good skin tone, i think it still needs to get darker. I have no idea what design to do for their shirt so if some1 wants to make a suggestion... I need to pull the hair over the ears to make them look more authetic so I'll try that soon.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - Looking good so far! Such quick work too!
Do the Carthaginian slingers wear trousers? I'm not sure that they really need a design for their shirts... It depends if we want to have the armies all coloured based on history or on the faction colours we assign them. I personally would lean towards having faction colours only appearing on borders and banners, and having the units coloured in a more individual manner. This would allow for more vibrant and interesting looking battles.

I'll start putting up some possible faction symbols soon. They will be in the Faction list post on page 1.

[Lonely Soldier]

Architectural Reference

This is a placeholder for architectural reference shots. There will be a seperate post for individual building designs later - this is just for general style.

The Roman Empire
Don't need changes immediately.

The Hellenistic States
Don't need changes immediately.

The Chinese Kingdoms
[img=http://img216.echo.cx/img216/2967/chinese20architecture201000401.jpg]

The Isles of Japan
Similar to China.

The Mongols
Lots of yurts


The Indian Princedoms


The Polynesian Tribes
Lots of carved wood...


The Maya




Palace





The Inca

Baths




The North American Tribes

The South-East Asian States
Indian and Chinese influences...

The Slavic States
Islamic and European influences...

[img=http://img216.echo.cx/img216/7831/russia26cj.jpg]

Church
[img=http://img216.echo.cx/img216/1660/russianchurch6wp.jpg]

The Celtic and Germanic States

The African Tribes

The Persians

[GaugamelaTC]

I love all the concept art Lonely and co.! This is gonna be a great mod! Btw Richyg hope you find a way to get rid of the trousers, because those slingers look great! I have a question regarding the North and South American peoples:
How will you balance their units pre columbos period without any cavalry?

[richyg13]

Using Eqyptian Slinger Model :D



I can start on shading the tunic etc. when i know how you want the tunic to look.

[richyg13]

Preview of Inca Spearmen
[IMG][img=http://img220.echo.cx/img220/4138/spearmen5ev.th.jpg][/IMG]

[Lonely Soldier]

GaugamelaTC - Thanks ! I believe the North Americans had horses all along, or at least the tribes of the Great Plains had them (correct me if I'm wrong!). for the South Americans: I'm not really sure... they will probably just end up having more powerful strike troops or something. You do raise a good point though, this is something to be considered more fully.

richyg13 - Those new slingers are much better! And the Spearmen preview looks excellent too! I assume that the tunic will be altered later. I'll see if there is a model without a shield - though I don't think there is... Once we get a modeller we will make the shield more like the ones in the pictures or remove it, but your work more than suffices! I see that you've altered the hair, its looking great!
I think the tunics are basically fine as they are - after all they are only lowly slingers.

[shifty157]

I believe the North Americans had horses all along, or at least the tribes of the Great Plains had them (correct me if I'm wrong!).

Nope. Horses only arrived in the Americas with the europeans. As well as the wheel.

[Lonely Soldier]

shifty157 - Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification. But the Aztecs did have the wheel before the Europeans arrived - they never adapted it for practical use though - it featured on several toys found at Aztec sites.

General Announcement

At this stage I think it would be better to set the mod between the 400s CE and the Renaissance - this would allow for a great deal of variety while providing fewer potential issues - rather than from 20BCE to the present. This is not to say that later, and earlier, eras will not be covered eventually, they will simply be later additions to the project. Within this time frame there is still room for dramatic progressions in technology for all factions, and the current faction list would still be applicable . This decision is by no means final! Please make any comments or queries you wish. The opinions of the community are all important to a mod, and we will be happy to take on new ideas and people.

[Lonely Soldier]

Music

This is a placeholder for ideas for music. This should be one of the most fun things to mod! Early on the factions will probably be grouped into general cultural styles for music, but eventualy each faction will have its own complete score. You may notice some anachronisms in the music, my view is that we should use the most iconic and exciting music available for that culture - history be damned!

The Roman Empire
No immediate changes required. Maybe some Carmina Burana. More Latin anyway!

The Hellenistic States
No immediate changes required. Shut that bloody bazooki up!

The Chinese Kingdoms
We need to decide whether they have semi-westernised music (Crouching tiger, Hidden Dragon/Hero) or whether we go pure traditional, or for a mix.

The Isles of Japan
From Shogun: TW. Roll out those battle drums!

The Mongols
From Mongol Invasion - Mmmm throat singing...

The Indian Princedoms
Who doesn't love Indian music?

The Polynesian Tribes
Steel drums? Maori Haka?

The Mayans
hmmmm... If only they hadn't been wiped out .

The Incas
Aha, an excuse to load up a Total War game with some of that awesome South American folk music!

The North American Tribes
There should be some good stuff available here!

The South-East Asian States
An interesting musical region!

The Slavic States
Sabre Dance battle yay, Moussorgsky w00t!

The Celtic and Germanic States
Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Holst, and many more!

The African Tribes
Lots of drums.

The Persians
Maybe some from Medieval TW.

I will also investigate the possibility of date dependant music - having the right music for the right era. Probably another hard-coded aspect, though this one is not too hard to take .

[richyg13]

Spearmen with NO SHIELDS!! :D Whos the daddy??!!



I used the alpha channel to remove it... if you havnt noticed, the arm looks like its bulging out at the top... i can either remove this using alpha channels or i can add in a sleeve. I leave you to decide.

[richyg13]

Inca Spearmen v1.0


New Tunic, No Shield, Corect Unit Stats, Unit Card, Unit Info Card, Correct Descriptions.

Inca Slingers v1.0


New Tunic, Belt around waist for ammo bag, Correct Unit Stats, Unit Card, Correct Descriptions

Lonely - I can compile these versions together if you want to add them to the running mod.