Has anyone been to totalwar.com recently

[Aetius the Last Roman]

I'm just curious,
I went there recently and I couldn't help laughing out loud.
It is one big propaganda fest.

They even have a thread celebrating the 'great future of Total:Warrior'.
I wonder if their 'registered users' aren't complete sellouts.

Your comments.

[Ginger]

yup, i dont really bother with the .com any more, but more for the generally shallow discussions that happen there. Though i have noticed that the Ministry for Truth clearly has officials working at tw.com.

All hail tw.org & twcentre i say, and death to all that dissagree!! err, as long as thats not too like propaganda.....

[Kraxis]

You do know that the guy that started the thread is the SEGA Europe's' Web community manager. It is basically a thread where you can ask questions about it and he will try and answer. It is not a sell out.
The com is the official board and it is the place where official announcements will happen. This is one of them more or less.

It seems to me that you have desided not to like it at all and anything short of a full apology from CA will not make you smile again. You didn't even look at the thread.

Good work there!

[AussieGiant]

Hi All,

I've been lurking for quite sometime on this board and the .com board. I decided to join this board as it has less of a "dramatic" environment. But I have to say the .com board is something I continue to lurk around as in between all the static there is very good information.

Cheers
AussieGiant

[Ginger]

Err- Kraxis, who are you flaming?

Just to clear up I wasnt speaking about the total warrior thread in specific, just that generally ive given up on the .com as it is an official forum and you tend to get the official line there.

My opinion about total warrior has been improving mind you.

[Kraxis]

If you noticed I posted basically on top of you... And I'm not flaming, I'm just tired of the old 'wheee, .com bad, me good, me bash .com, me not read threads there but me want to comment on them.'
If you want to complain about the .com then at least do the rest of us teh favour of actually getting the basics right.

So you see it wasn't direct at you.

[Ginger]

Sorry, my bad, I never checked the post time. Its easy to get the wrong impression when your not talking face to face.

[Gregoshi]

Let's not get into mud slinging at another TW forum or site. Each has site has its fans. Which forum you prefer is a matter of personal taste. If you are happy with the forum(s) where you hang out, that is all that matters.

[Aetius the Last Roman]

You do know that the guy that started the thread is the SEGA Europe's' Web community manager. It is basically a thread where you can ask questions about it and he will try and answer.

Kraxis, I know it is an official thread but did you see the responses from most of the 'registered users', they reply was oh how great. I really love and trust Sega. Hail to our mighty CA leaders. I personally find it very hard to believe that the merger was taken soo well by any TW gamer. After all, the reaction it got here and TW center was one of shock and horror. Am I to believe the .com users did not have similiar concerns.

This sucks, back in MTW, we could say what we wanted without the CA's Gestapo censoring our thread.

Let the dissent flourish!

[steve]

i find it ammusing that the people at CA even bother to check or read peoples opinions at all, since it seems all anyone does is bitch and complain about this bug or this bug or something not being up to your standards. People dont seem to apprecitate that CA atleast makes an effort to please people and to fix their screw ups, i mean they could have just put the patch on the expansion and charged for it but they put it up for free.. You have to understand that they are a business and although they try to please the consumer, they ulitmatley have to make a profit. Im happy with CA, and i am also happy that they have a huge fanbase that fills in voids that Ca doesnt, such as people who work so hard to share Mods with everyone. I mean honestly, get a life and stop worrying about a video game company and obessing over it. I dont know if its sad or scary that some people care so much , i mean i love RTW and try to squeeze it in between playing guitar and school, but damn some people need to find a girlfriend.

[BeeSting]

"On the other hand, if you emanate enough positive vibes, who knows what might happen in the very near future?"

Does that mean we have to polish his knob just to get our hopes up?

What arrogant bast...ard!!!

[Old Celt]

Steve,

You are right: there are a few people who focus on minutia no one cares about. I don't think any developer should worry about those kinds of people. We have a rule where I work that says: 1 in 100 people is basically a nut job, so, unless complaints run higher than that, we will dismiss them without action at the project leader's discretion.

I'm talking about showstopper bugs like the save game/reload one which can destroy the value to the point of worthlessness for players who can't play long sessions. Serious bugs need attention too, like the HA problem. It's nice that modders have dealt with it, but CA, as the responsible party, should fix it, and do it quickly, WITH GOOD GRACES!!


If I buy a new car, and the key breaks off in the ignition on day one, the dealership doesn't ask me to call a locksmith. THEY take care of it, even if it isn't strictly covered by warranty, because: THAT'S HOW YOU DO BUSINESS. And conversely, if a firm earns my business, they also earn my loyalty for future purchases. RTW has issues which are serious enough to merit developer intervention, and I think the community has every right to complain about not getting it.

[BeeSting]

Nicely said Old Celt.

[the tokai]

Seems to me like you people are the arrogant bastards here. Old Celt, i think that in the quote giljay is talking about spartan: total warrior and i agree with him, all you have seen are a few screens and a movie and everyone is already bitching about how console games suck and stuff like that. And Steve, maybe you don't like fantasy games, but some people do. No one is forcing you to buy it. Hell, if rome or medieval would've been 100% historically accurate, you wouldn't see much action. Just accept that some people are different than you.

And while we're on the subject, i want to congratulate CA with their new deal with Sega and wish them the best of luck with their console game.

[Kraxis]

Now Old Celt I would like for you to click the little link at the bottom of Quietus' post. There you will see the thread in which the post of Gil was made.

In said thread people went nuts... Only hours after the released news. How could people know anything at that time?!?!? There wasn't even any screenshots or movies at that time.

I think you owe the man an apology, and please settle down a bit. It is like you couldn't fathom that people here would actually rave their own heads off and that that was in fact what Gil was responding to. Please stop taking such things personal... At least that is how your posts came off to me.

[Musashi]

You know, I understand the idea that developers should produce games free of bugs and patch any that are buggy no matter what... But seriously, unless you've not bought any games in the past couple years, do you actually expect that to happen?

You can compare it to a car that won't run, but the fact is that the standards the car industry holds itself to and the standards that the game industry holds itself to are very, very different beasts.

I'd say the last 5-10 games I bought, major releases from large companies all, were buggy and never got fixed, and we're talking crash bugs here.

So to me it's just par for the course.

[Browning]

You know, I understand the idea that developers should produce games free of bugs and patch any that are buggy no matter what... But seriously, unless you've not bought any games in the past couple years, do you actually expect that to happen?

You know, I happen to have bought some games with real support. Europa Universalis II being a good example of a cooperation between the devs and the players.

You can compare it to a car that won't run, but the fact is that the standards the car industry holds itself to and the standards that the game industry holds itself to are very, very different beasts.

Now whose fault is this?

[BeeSting]

I think Celt is referring to the many bugs in this game and CA's apparent abandonment of its further fixes.

[hrvojej]

Why is this argument even here? How and where people post is their own individual matter. And in the end, we'll all pass the judgement with our wallets the next time around.

[RJV]

@Old Celt,

Re your 'pompous arrogance' statement. Don't you think you're going a tad over the top here? Can you not take the comment in the spirit in which it was undoubtedly intended, ie a joke? GJS has consistently posted here (when he doesn't have to) to add bits of info when useful and when allowed (and I seem to remeber an occasion where he wasn't allowed but posted anyway).

Any road up, my point being 'lighten up a little'. Don't go off in a tantrum about pompous arrogance - this is the internet, people post comments and people all interpret those comments differently. From your other posts it's obvious you're old enough and ugly enough (joke) to a) see through the bs, and b) take things with a pinch of salt.

Cheers,

Rob

[Old Celt]

I did ask if the "pompous arrogant" remarks were taken out of a different context. And some of you have shown me that they were...However, that still doesn't make it acceptable to speak to your customers in that way, even if those customers are being totally unreasonable.

I remember sitting in a room with 18 other developers for a multi million dollar project and the customer, who was extremely unreasonable. This customer targeted the lead developer and went into a screaming tirade which included a fusilade of the most vile language you could ever imagine. This went on for nearly an hour and I really thought the guy was going to stroke out. Finally he was exhausted, and no one from our team had gotten a chance to speak. He said, "Well, I want to know what you have to say!" We were all furious. Our lead dev looked at him, and smiled like an angel and said very softly: "I am taking my team to lunch now, and we will discuss a response to your concerns." That was the most fantastic display of customer service I've ever seen. Despite incredible, unfair, vile heaping abuse, this dev kept his head on straight and remembered that the customer is king. The customer is always right.

Now, if other devs can stand the heat, CA's devs can too. If I can do a better job finding and zapping bugs, I feel fully justified to demand that level of service from other professionals. Yes I am a bit passionate about this subject, but I strive to be fair in how I analyze. As I said, in the beginning, I was defending CA, believing they would do the right thing because they know what is proper. My comments are not in reference to the console game in any way. I'm strictly speaking about the status of RTW and patch policy.

I just want the same respect from CA and attention to problems, that I give my software customers every day. Is that really asking too much?

[Calmarac]

Good story there Old Celt. I`ve seen you defending CA here from time to time and it`s a sign to CA that things have gone badly wrong when even a determined optimist such as yourself has finally run out of hope.

@ steve - yes we know about the knitpickers you find in every game forum. However, we`re concerned here with major game-breaking bugs still being present after 6 months and two official patches, with no sign of another or any word AT ALL from the developers.

@ Browning - that was me at the bottom of page 5 in the Loadgame bug thread. I`d contacted Activision support on the advice of another poster. I reported the bug and said I`d contacted them as there had been no word at all on the Official Forum. Activision just referred me back to the Official Forum. Then the later email saying "problem SOLVED" - as I`d not continued to barrage them with emails...

I`m beginning to wonder if there`ll even be an expansion now, let alone another patch. Expansions often sell to the old core fanbase, many of whom have now given up on this game, series and developer.

Such a sad way for it to fizzle out. I`ve loved this series since STW - even still have the original MB boardgame Shogun which started it all.

Repeating myself from `over there`

In complete contrast - my preorder of Silent Hunter 3 arrived on Wednesday. It had teething trouble bugs as we`d expect of any game nowadays. They posted the first patch for it, fixing a dozen or so buglets, yesterday!! I think it hits the shops tomorrow. Oh, and they`d held up release for six months to add a dynamic campaign specifically as it had been demanded by the fanbase. It`s called customer care CA, in case you`ve forgotten.

And guess what - it`s technically and historically accurate, has a decent working AI, a proper dynamic campaign - and it remembers what it was doing between saves.

And this a first game from a Romanian comany who love what they do and communicate properly with their market, especially by listening and acting on what they hear.

[Darius]

I can sum up how the .com and the .org are different real quick for you people.

.org

The org is an open discussion forum in which you are free to speak of anything to do with the totalwar game series. So long as you restrain yourself from using profanity, rudeness, personal attacks, and/or sheer idiocy as a way of communication, you will be fine.

.com

The com is an open discussion forum (unless it's about how totalwar has bugs or is against totalwar) in which you are free to speak of anything to do with the total war game series. So long as you restrain yourself from using profanity, rudeness, personal attacks, and/or sheer idiocy (only the moderator killemall is allowed to monopolize on idiocy) as a way of communication (unless the mods decide to randomly close it should they suspect you are a foreign agent sent to undermine their great works), you should be fine (until you are banned for posting a bug report).

[BeeSting]

Had CA seriously expressed any concerns for RTW bugs, would we have had the kind of negativities on the console thread? Instead, the impression I get is that they continue to play us down with no sign of any concerns over bugs that plague this game.

[BeeSting]

So should we beg, or better yet, play it off as nothing is wrong so we could please the demigods of CA enough to have them release another patch, for free?

[SpencerH]

Has another of my posts disappeared? It included a witty analogy about monkeys throwing fruit at a smiling man in a suit. If anyone sees it maybe they could let me know where it is. That way I'll know that I dont have to book myself in to the 'happy house' for some rest.

The disappearance before this one (if it happened) was in the particular thread referenced by Kraxis above (definitely a good read). I know that Kukrikhan made that one disappear so I'm not worried about early-onset alzheimers with that one. Its a pity that my pithy remarks were missed though. As with Old Celt, I too have problems with condescending comments made by a certain CA employee. The fact that they were in response to the rabid ravings of disgruntled youth is irrelevant. Either you have a forum for discussion (good and bad) or you dont.

PS I'm saving this one so that I dont become confused as to whether I indeed wrote it (in case it too vanishes).

[Pode]

I am so bloody tired of hearing about how it's impossible to have release software that's bug free. I work in unmanned aircraft design. The budget for a lot of my projects is comparable to the development budget for a medium game, let alone the blockbuster everyone expected RTW to be, and I have to include the hardware design and fab cost too. Over two decades, yeah, we've lost our share of prototype birds to software glitches, mistakes happen. But you bet your ass by the time it leaves my shop it damn well works like a charm for 5 or 6 times the design life of the airframe without a software crash. Manned aviation has been writing 100% bug free software using V&V autocoders for 20 years. Fly by wire doesn't mean the pilot pulls on a bunch of strings, you know.
But the stakes are different, games don't kill people if they mess up. Fine, but the dollar cost is far from trivial and that can get you fired just as fast. More important, it's not like bug free gaming doesn't happen. When was the last time you got a patch for your console game? Oh, yeah, they can't patch them, so they have to . . . drum roll . . . get it right the first time. Don't tell me it can't be done.

[tai4ji2x]

well, consoles are standardized equipment, so they don't also have to test for driver/hardware incompatibilities, etc. i bet a lot of the time for testing goes to compatibility issues alone.

i have no problem with slightly or even very buggy game software - as long as there is a commitment to support it afterwards, which CA seems unwilling/unable to do for whatever reasons, legitimate or not.

[Aetius the Last Roman]

When was the last time you got a patch for your console game? Oh, yeah, they can't patch them, so they have to . . . drum roll . . . get it right the first time. Don't tell me it can't be done.

Hail to Pode,
great point.

[screwtype]

More important, it's not like bug free gaming doesn't happen. When was the last time you got a patch for your console game? Oh, yeah, they can't patch them, so they have to . . . drum roll . . . get it right the first time. Don't tell me it can't be done.

True, but then, they charge half as much again for console games.