Investigation of AI reassessment upon reload

[therother]

You may well have a point, but IMO it does not undermine the fundamental reason for this test. We are attempting to test if the AI acts differently in the two cases, where the player is triggering AI in exactly the same way, with the only variable being the saving/loading of the game in one case.

[Kraxis]

rouge the AI factions already react to each other... At least that is obvious from the non-save/load games. That we remove a single faction is of little consequence as the game is supposed to actually feature non-reactionary regions (rebels) and dead factions. One faction out of 21 is not much, and in general only means another 2-3 'rebel' provinces.

From all my games it doesn't seem that the AI factions react any differently to us than to all the other AI factions. We are 'just' another faction. And the AI factions have plenty to react to, each other.

[roguebolo]

Unfortunately, I think you're seriously wrong about that and it was one of the main issues I pondered over when I first played MTW. The faction AIs do indeed seem to act as seperate entities, but there seems to be an overriding AI governing the game in a certain direction for the benefit of the human player. I've always thought this is one of the reasons they've skirted around the prospect of a multi-player version of the campaign game. As long as it is not designed to be multi-player, balancing the relative strength of different factions on the campaign map is unnecessary. It allows the game developers to take liberties to impose situations on the human player. For instance, it would be simple for ANY bordering faction to simply crush the Polish faction in MTW early in the game. But they don't. Otherwise, it wouldn't make much sense to try to play the Polish as a human player, right? So this AI "overseer" makes sure that doesn't happen. I think we get a small glimpse of him through the Pope and the Senate, wherein he tries to direct your actions as well.

After you reach a certain skill level in the campaign game, the AI is never really that challenging, but what it can do (if you allow or encourage it to) is set up some really interesting scenarios.

[Pode]

You may well have a point, but IMO it does not undermine the fundamental reason for this test. We are attempting to test if the AI acts differently in the two cases, where the player is triggering AI in exactly the same way, with the only variable being the saving/loading of the game in one case.

The goal seems to be to confirm statistically that there is in fact a difference, and only then evaluate whether that difference has a gameplay impact, correct?

[roguebolo]

Well, something must trigger the AI to be aggressive again. Possibly activity on the part of the player?

To be fair, I must admit that I never "sit out sieges". I always rally, usually on the turn after being besieged and never later than the turn after that.

I should mention that in my current campaign, which I'm playing as the Julii because I reinstalled RTW and Patch 1.2 from scratch, I still have the save games from just about every turn in the game. I think I will go back and take a look at them and turn off FOW and see what's happening with the OTHER factions -- the stuff I can't see.

*edit*

Actually, I just thought of another load game issue which I've always thought was unrelated but might not be. You know how random events can happen when you select End Turn? Well, if you don't like the outcome of those events, you can do a load game. If you just hit End Turn again, you usually get the same random events. But if you make ANY change -- say, move a noncrucial diplomat or something -- it will re-roll the dice for all of those random events, and you will get a completely different set of results.

Perhaps this is related, perhaps it is not. But the change definitely occurs only if there is player activity AFTER the load game and BEFORE the End Turn.

[roguebolo]

Looking back through my save games, I have found that I saved each and every one of my first twenty moves immediately prior to hitting "End Turn", so I can track each faction's activities for the first 20 turns. However, FOW doesn't seem to want to be disabled if it was originally enabled.

By turn 20, the majority of the nations were still in control of only their starting territories and had not engaged in warfare with other factions, with the following exceptions:

1.) The Seleucids and Egypt were at war, Egypt gaining a territory on turn 11 and losing a territory on turn 18; the Seleucids gained a territory on turn 18.
2.) Parthia and I (Julii) both gained a territory on turn 2.
3.) The Brutii gained a territory on turn 4 and another on turn 14.
4.) Pontus gained a territory on turn 14 and another on turn 16.
5.) The Greek Cities were at war with Macedon and Pontus.
6.) The Seleucids were at war with Egypt and Armenia.
7.) Gaul and I were at war.
8.) Brittainia and Germania were at war.
9.) Scythia and Parthia were at war.

Now, that's not exactly inert inactivity, and there were a considerable number of load games during those first twenty moves. I think the fact that I can upload each and every save game to whomever wants to look at them, as well as numerous variations I tried throughout the course of the campaign, is proof of that.

So far, I managed to find only one save game where I was under siege, in Thapsus, later in the game. There was another Numidian army approaching Carthage, obviously intent on laying siege, at the same time. As usual, I sallied when I was actually playing the game. However, if I load the save game and simply hit "End Turn" without sallying forth, the Numidians do indeed abandon the siege -- to block the bridge between Thapsus and Carthage, the only way I can get reinforcements there, while the other army layed siege on Carthage. Note that the second army did not forget that it's plans were to lay siege, and that the first army did move to a logical strategic point! (Except for the fact that I had a trireme in dock at Thapsus.) However, here's the bummer:

If you do a save/load at that point and hit "End Turn", Numidia also abandons the siege of Carthage and both armies walk away. If you just hit "End Turn" without the save/load, then they maintain the siege. So there's apparently some validity to this observation and it is some type of player activity which is defeating it. I will look at some additional save games and see if I can identify it. Anyone else who wants to look at them is welcome.