Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 49

Thread: Gentle Dictators?

  1. #1
    The Orgs Prophet of RATM Member IrishMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Somewhere in the defensive area of a soccer field, slaughtering puny strikers.
    Posts
    903

    Default Gentle Dictators?

    We have all heard of the evil, brutal dictators, but have their ever been, in history, good, gentlel dictators?

    I got to thinking and couldn't really think of any, so I ask you guys this question.
    If so what did they rule, and what time period?
    When ignorance reigns life is lost.

    War is norm, Fight the War, Screw the norm!

  2. #2
    warning- plot loss in progress Senior Member barocca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    (*disclaimer* - reality may or may not exist, in some societies reality is a crime, punishable by life)
    Posts
    5,341

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Edward Bouverie Pusey,
    born at Pusey House, Berkshire, 22 Aug., 1800
    died at Ascot Priory, Berkshire, 16 Sept 1882
    gentle dictator to the English Church Union

    B.
    The winds that blows -
    ask them, which leaf on the tree
    will be next to go.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,663

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Was Ceaser not a dictator? He rulled farley kind towards his people. The reson there arnt that many good dictators is because power corupts........ how sad the world is today..


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  4. #4
    Stadtholder Member Ash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    126

    Lightbulb Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus
    Was Ceaser not a dictator? He rulled farley kind towards his people. The reson there arnt that many good dictators is because power corupts........ how sad the world is today..
    I think he was named Consul for life in the end.

    He didn't spend much time governing though, he was fighting Senate armies for 2 years after he achieved that position. Then he got butchered after he defeated them.

  5. #5
    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,348

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Cyrus the Great, Cambyses II, Darius the Great... all enlightened despots.

    All the monarchs noted in history as 'enlightened absolutists', such as Catherine the Great, Frederick the Great and our very own William I, were also 'gentle dictators' (although I have some doubts about ol' William).



    ~Wiz
    "It ain't where you're from / it's where you're at."

    Eric B. & Rakim, I Know You Got Soul

  6. #6
    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    the holy(?) land
    Posts
    1,207

    Smile Re: Gentle Dictators?

    caesar was dictator 5 times (that is in 5 years) than he became dictator for 10 years and then for life but he was murdered few months after
    he also was consul 5 times
    caesar as you know never took the crown
    he was loved by the people but the aristocracy hated him
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

    "Its time we stop worrying, and get angry you know? But not angry and pick up a gun, but angry and open our minds." (Tupac Amaru Shakur)

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,663

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Wow ceaser was killed because he was to good. A message here be good, but not to good.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  8. #8

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    How did Franco rule after he got power?

  9. #9
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    We have all heard of the evil, brutal dictators, but have their ever been, in history, good, gentlel dictators?
    I beleave that's an oxymoron.

    How did Franco rule after he got power?
    He was almost as bad as Stalin minus all the purges. He dissallowed art and literature and he brutalized many. He's one of the worst examples.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,663

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Franco caused a civil war i think anyway, suported the Nazie rageim and denied spain Marshall aid because of this. Who knows if there wasnt a civil war and Franco did suport the Nazies...... The world could be a lot different today. And i probably wouldnt be alive.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  11. #11

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Hehe i know about how he took power, but ive heard spanish people talk relatively well about him. I think it depended on which side you were on in the civil war as to how he treated you afterward?

  12. #12
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Riding Shai-Hulud
    Posts
    5,346

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    I think quite a few kings and queens were 'good' dictators in the day, Caesar was already mentioned, but what about Augustus ? He designed Imperial Rome, and tried to do good for the provinces.

    It all depends on how you look at it though, everyone who ever had a position with virtually absolute power has done some horrible things, hard choices need to be made.
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Longshanks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,484

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Julius Caesar did some fairly brutal things while fighting the Gauls and the Germans, but they were enemies of Rome. He would definately qualify as a benevolent dictator, at least as far as the Romans are concerned.

    "...a man who had become strongly committed to the popular cause and highly experienced in the exercise of power, was murdered in the senate-house by Brutus and Cassius out of jealousy of his immense power and out of longing for the traditional constitution. The people in fact missed him more than they had anyone else; they went round hunting for his killers, gave him a funeral in the middle of the forum, built a temple on the site of the pyre, and still sacrifice to him as a god."

    Appian, I, 4.
    Last edited by Longshanks; 04-10-2005 at 04:22.

  14. #14
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    How about the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten ?
    Last edited by Gawain of Orkeny; 04-10-2005 at 04:40.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  15. #15
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Searching for the ORG's lost honor
    Posts
    4,657

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Yes, I was thinking of Napoleon as well. Compared to the revolution's bloody reign of terror, and the failed monarchy before it, his dictatorship seems rather "gentle" for his French citizens. And his social reforms and approach to wts./measures/sciences were quite progressive. That need to conquer the world makes it a tough sell though. However, since nearly all of Europe was dedicated to restoring the French monarchy and crushing France, I find this distraction quite understandable, if lamentable.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  16. #16
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Sorry Red I edited Napoleon out as the question wasnt benevolent dictator but Gentle. One might say Napoleon was benevolent but I dont think you can make a very good argument that he was gentle. I mean he was a General who personaly led men in battle. So are we only looking for gentile dictators or will benevolent ones be incuded? If so that opens up a whole lot more possibilities.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  17. #17
    The Orgs Prophet of RATM Member IrishMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Somewhere in the defensive area of a soccer field, slaughtering puny strikers.
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Lets open it up to benevolent/good dictators. People that ruled well and helped their people out, not slaughter them and do evil acts.
    When ignorance reigns life is lost.

    War is norm, Fight the War, Screw the norm!

  18. #18
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Well its your thread, your the boss

    So then Ill go back to Elizabeth the 1st. Lets not leave out Peter the great who almost single habdidly brought Russia out of the dark ages. And while were talking Russia lets not leave out that other Great one Catherine the Great. There are many many examples of benevolent despots out there. Heres a gentle one that was mentioned in another thread. The Dalai Lama. You could even include the Pope.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  19. #19
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Lets open it up to benevolent/good dictators. People that ruled well and helped their people out, not slaughter them and do evil acts.
    *sigh* once again, isn't that an oxymoron?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    *sigh* once again, isn't that an oxymoron?

    In Germany after ww1, many people longed for the good old days when there was one strong ruler in the country and they didnt have to deal with the mess of the new republic... So no.

  21. #21
    The Orgs Prophet of RATM Member IrishMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Somewhere in the defensive area of a soccer field, slaughtering puny strikers.
    Posts
    903

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    BP yes it is quite an oxymoron, but only because we have heard of evil dictators. So the evil images becomes the same as the image of a dictator. This is why I made this thread. I wanted to know if their were some good dictators throughout history.
    When ignorance reigns life is lost.

    War is norm, Fight the War, Screw the norm!

  22. #22
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Centereach NY
    Posts
    13,763

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    There were probably as many good dictators as there were evilones. Dictators are only human just like the rest of us No better no worse.
    Fighting for Truth , Justice and the American way

  23. #23
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,902

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    *sigh* once again, isn't that an oxymoron?
    The word dictorship only implies one-man rule, nothing more. Thus a benevolent dictorship isn't an oxymoron.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

    Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
    Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
    TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED

  24. #24
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    7,967

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    I'm pretty sure calling nigh any Russian czar after Peter the Great, nevermind the man himself, a "benevolent dictator" amounts to flat historical revisionism. Well, except maybe for that Alexander the Second, the "liberator czar" who abolished serfdom and was well enough liked that there's still a statue of him standing next to the Finnish president's office... although I'm pretty sure Russia was engaging in hardcore imperialism and fighting brutal wars with Turkey also during his reign.

    But old Peter ? Get real. The man was a straight tyrant who all but invented the thereafter stock Russian practice of doing nigh anything in the most costly, bloody manner possible. The construction of St. Petersburg on a bloody mosquito-infested swampland, which cost the lives of thousands and again thousands of Swedish POWs and drafted Russian serfs is merely the tip of the iceberg. And do you have any idea of the kind of treatment his enemies tended to get en masse ?
    In his later days it was something of a hobby of his to invent new taxes to pay for his assorted modernization projects and wars. That Russians these days tend to view him as a "great man" mostly shows they have a few collective screws loose; it'd be much easier to feel sympathetic for the poor buggers about the bloody-handed tyrants they seem to get as leaders if they didn't build altars for those psychos.

    That's actually more or less the case with most result-producing "great leaders". In most cases to view them as "great men" and "benevolent rulers" requires overlooking, explaining away or bluntly ignoring a whole lot of atrocities, bloody wars, internal repression and assorted personal shortcomings. I mean, the damn Saddam Hussein was actually something of an enlightened despot - back when he could still afford it (ie. pre-1991) he was pretty big on supporting education, progressive social developements etc. and if you didn't cause trouble odds were you could live pretty nicely under his reign.
    But I don't think I need to go over his repressive policies or how he treated "troublemakers" (including, as usual, people who spoke ill of "great and benevolent leader"), now do I ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  25. #25
    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The Mountains.
    Posts
    3,868

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    From what I have heard Catherine the Great was an enlightened despot, not a benevolent or good dictator. She slaughtered peasants for trying to get out from under surfdom after all.
    "A man's dying is more his survivor's affair than his own."
    C.S. Lewis

    "So many people tiptoe through life, so carefully, to arrive, safely, at death."
    Jermaine Evans

  26. #26
    Ambiguous Member Byzantine Prince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,334

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside
    The word dictorship only implies one-man rule, nothing more. Thus a benevolent dictorship isn't an oxymoron.
    A dictator means one man rule yes. But in order to keep that rule then the person in power will have to be brutal. The beginner of this thread asked if there was a dictator that did NOT brutalize people, and that is an oxymoron like for example "good war" because in order to become a dictator and maintain it, it's inherent to become brutal or to be brutal. Name one that didn't commit hanous crimes in order to get there.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
    A dictator means one man rule yes. But in order to keep that rule then the person in power will have to be brutal. The beginner of this thread asked if there was a dictator that did NOT brutalize people, and that is an oxymoron like for example "good war" because in order to become a dictator and maintain it, it's inherent to become brutal or to be brutal. Name one that didn't commit hanous crimes in order to get there.

    really i thought a dictator was some 1 who told you what to do,
    you dont get to vote on it
    and you just do as he said or els.

    Even if your not telling your own country what to do,
    and in fact your telling a Nother country what to do,
    then your a dictator as well.

    ive edited the bit where i mention a country,
    But not many go round trying to tell people what to do dictating the law.
    Last edited by Shambles; 04-11-2005 at 23:05.

  28. #28
    dictator by the people Member caesar44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    the holy(?) land
    Posts
    1,207

    Smile Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus
    Wow ceaser was killed because he was to good. A message here be good, but not to good.

    oh it is a surprise for you ? so think about kennedy who was not a dictator but was killed ? and he was good
    Last edited by caesar44; 04-11-2005 at 11:53.
    "The essence of philosophy is to ask the eternal question that has no answer" (Aristotel) . "Yes !!!" (me) .

    "Its time we stop worrying, and get angry you know? But not angry and pick up a gun, but angry and open our minds." (Tupac Amaru Shakur)

  29. #29
    Member Member hoom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The country that replaced Zelix
    Posts
    1,930

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    Kennedy was only kind of good.
    Vietnam was escalated under his rule & I think the Bay of Pigs happened too?

    Very few political leaders have ever been truly and entirely good regardless of how they got to be in power.
    maybe those guys should be doing something more useful...

  30. #30
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,663

    Default Re: Gentle Dictators?

    I still feel strongly abou the Vietnam war. All that life was lost for nothing it was unwinable from the start. Thts my fear ofer the wars of the future there will be to much resitence from rebels e.c.t. to ever win.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO