Divinus Arma's Illustrated Guide to Basic Tactics

[Leftenant Moley]

The Guide is coming along nicely

Is this going to get stickied and moved to the guides section on completion?

[MajorFreak]

(2)There were no phalanx of Hastati, Principes, and Traiarii. The Triarii were the only ones who fought in phalanx, and they did so with the Hasta.

An additional point on the Hasta: Prior to the Spanish campaign in the punic wars against Carthage, The hastati primarily used the Hasta (From where they derive their name). It was after the spanish Campaign that Hastati and Principes took the Gladius as their primary weapon in addition to the Pila.

I believe the gladius simply made an earlier sword design obsolete. I seriously doubt the hastati/principes used any spear-type object other than javelins. As for the Phalanx? hmmmmm...there's been some discussion, here, that points to the romans seriously dropping "true" phalanx functions (debatable)

[Divinus Arma]

I believe the gladius simply made an earlier sword design obsolete. I seriously doubt the hastati/principes used any spear-type object other than javelins. As for the Phalanx? hmmmmm...there's been some discussion, here, that points to the romans seriously dropping "true" phalanx functions (debatable)

Most of my information comes from: Keppie, L. (1998). The Making of the Roman Army: From Republic to Empire. Oklahoma Press: London, England

Professor Keppie is the Senior curator for the Hunterian Museem, University of Glasgow. He is a distinguished Roman historian and archaeologist and has a specialization in the development and organization of the Roman Army.

I pretty much take his word as gold. As for the Hastati, he wrote that they initially carried the Hasta. As for the phalanx, Keppie wrote that the very early Roman republic fought in the phalanx, but that it was abandoned for maniple style tactics after battles with northern tribes proved the phalanx inefficient.

I'll check out the thread, though.

Thanks,

DA

[Divinus Arma]

The Guide is coming along nicely

Is this going to get stickied and moved to the guides section on completion?

Thanks.

As for the sticky, that isn't up to me. A sticky in the guides forum would be an honor.

DA

[pezhetairoi]

I'd say it's an honour you surely deserve. The amount of effort and research that went into creating this thread is truly admirable. THAT'S what I'm in awe of.

[Divinus Arma]

I'd say it's an honour you surely deserve. The amount of effort and research that went into creating this thread is truly admirable. THAT'S what I'm in awe of.

Thank you. Your comments are kind indeed.

DA

[pezhetairoi]

Yes, because you're deserving of them :-) And I certainly look forward to reading more of your work.

[marcusbrutus]

This is becoming a really really good guide/military history lesson. Keep up the good work.

[Divinus Arma]

Thank you.

[Divinus Arma]

I noticed some requests for Basic tactics. I thought I would resurrect this old thread since it never got posted to the guides section.

I might even update it agin if I find the time. (50 work week plus 18 units of college studt per semester tends to take alot of time).

[Mongoose]

He's showing us general strategies on how to fight and win, taken from Real Life® tactics that are tried and true. Ignore them at your own risk.

With romes AI, i am prepared to take that risk

That said, i do think that those are useful strat's for those who are new to the game. How ever, i think your time would be better spent on an MP guide. You know, the part of the game where you have to actaully use some tactics...

[Divinus Arma]

This is several months old. I was having fun. Don't piss in my punch rat. lol.

[pezhetairoi]

lol good to see you again DA! Long time no see...

[Mongoose]

Divinus Arma


No offence meant. Just saying that if you changed your guide a little to make it work better for MP, it would be 3X more useful.

[pezhetairoi]

Nay, mongoose, it works for Mplayer too, but you have to be VERY flexible indeed to make it work in application. it's tough. :-\

Another person who lives in Bartix, I see... well met! :)

[Divinus Arma]

No sweat rat, there was never any offense taken. Hence the "lol". I guess I should have put instead.

And Pez, I have been around. I've been hooked on the backroom for awhile. Thanks for the warm welcome though.

[Mongoose]

Nay, mongoose, it works for Mplayer too, but you have to be VERY flexible indeed to make it work in application. it's tough. :-\

Another person who lives in Bartix, I see... well met! :)

I don't "Live in Bartix" I am the lord of bartx! second to none except the all knowing God of smiles and rambling abokasix!



Divinus Arma

[Afro Thunder]

Ah, more Bartixians I see. Glad to meet you!

[pezhetairoi]

What is this, a strategy consultant forum turned Bartixian Reunion? XD

[Zizka]

I realise that this thread is very old, maybe we can bring it to life a bit.

The battle that the first major echelon manuever was preformed was the Battle of Leuktra, Boeotia in 371 B.C., where in the Theban commander, the innovative Epaminondas, massed against the Spartans a deep formation of 50 ranks or more (agreed at fifty or thereabouts I believe) and then his line shunk along the line as it faced the weaker Lakedonnian allies. This wasn't a static battle both sides were seeking confruntation, so there was no angle of attack by opposing lines, it was merely strengthening one side of the line in order to break that part first.

[pezhetairoi]

But...but...there was angling of lines! This was the first refused flank battle, meaning that the Theban line had angle of attack... but really, if you want to see the real thing, look at Gaugamela. That is the height of combined arms operations using refused-flank echelon technique. Although recently I have been finding it hard as Alexander's successor to get the enemy to take my bait and allow me to use the echelon. Most times I just outflank and win.

[Viking]

I don't "Live in Bartix" I am the lord of bartx! second to none except the all knowing God of smiles and rambling abokasix!

Hah! You don`t live in the lands you`re lord over? I do, so you better be carefull then or there will be a civil revolt!

[NodachiSam]

Holy ****! Kudos to you!

[marcus aquila]

Great Work! Thoroughly enjoyable and informative- Ave Divinus!




'Fear not death, only shame and dishonour'- Uesugi Kenshin

[HarunTaiwan]

I used these tactics in a horrible battle I had to fight to relieve a siege. I only had about 1,000 men and had to attacked two big macedonian armies (one was reinforcing the other.) The goal was to kill these two armies enough to allow the besieged army a chance to break the siege against a third army of Macs.

The echelon tactic worked well, especially as I was outmanned. It really broke up their lines and allowed nice victory, IIRC over 2500 Macs dead to my 300 - 500.

[Strappy Horse]

Great stuff, very interesting read, especially the part on the echelon, given my preference for phalanx warfare).

[Franconicus]

Respect, Divinus!

[Redleg]

Respect, Divinus!

I concur - an excellent job of providing some basic informatin and tactics

[rs2k2]

I thought about the echelion formation and how the right side would be extremely vulnerable to a flank and thought about how to protect it and 2 things came to mind:

1. going into a (pardon my disney movie allusion) "flying V"

xxxx__
xxx/S_S\
xx/...C...\
x/...CGC...\
/..AA..AA...\

x, . = placeholders
/, |, \ = infantry
C = cavalry
G = General (if cavalry)
S = skimishers
A = archers

basically you have all ranged units with fire-at-will disabled and skirmish mode disabled, then pick your gap and throw everything but the kitchen sink at them...

...actually for more effect throw that kitchen sink...

thus the unit being peppered should wittle away into nothingness for your cavalry to charge in

basically two echelions placed together i think...but im worth jack...

note: skirmishers must be able to throw above your own infantry or you'll be friendly-firing a gap in your infantry so big that you could fit an elephant through it...and not the kick and screaming types either...


method 2: just leave some light infantry/cavalry in reserve to meet up with the flanking attack

xxxx__
xxx/
xx/.._
x/..._

[jerby]

that really looks like an authentic RTW strategy.
i think it wouldn't hold long against a human player/ real life archers.
archers shoudl be powerfull enough to obliterate one place in a line. and on Custom battle, a couple of things:
-lots of money spent on archers. money other players can spent on cav to outflank. or moere infantry to wash away your inf.
-it's very static, once the line is breached, there's not much to do other than break it up competely
-if the front infantry breaks ( the "__ ") your pretty mcuh screwed (with equal armies)

still very creative!