4 What ifs

[cegorach]

Result of 1-4: millions of additional victims. [/QUOTE]

They died anyway... in communist prisons or in Syberia, maybe try to see it from the point of view of these 150 000 000 people who were living between the 2 mass murderers

[Byzantine Prince]

What if I didn't crap this morning? What then?

[ShadesPanther]

you will die from constipation or maybe you will crap more next time.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

He already craps enough

[Gregoshi]

Keep your crap in the toilet, not here please. If you don't give a crap about this thread, then do your turdy work elsewhere. While fiber can help you force a bowel movement, nothing and no one is forcing you to read this thread.

Switching to "on-topic" mode...

1) Germany would have attacked Russia, but not in 1939. They weren't ready yet to take on the Russians. However, without Britain and France to fight, they would have lost the fine opportunity to further hone their blitzkrieg tactics that these two provided. Another interesting change would have been that Rommel would most likely have been commanding on the Eastern front.

2) This is a tough one. If Germany gets pulled in with the Allies against Russia, it could work for them but I think it may have more likely worked against Germany's favour. While the British/French would inflict casualties against the Russians, I doubt it would have been on the scale the Germans did in reality. Such a conflict would have probably ended in a stalemate - with Russia winning the land war but not being able to strike back at England or France. The battle would move to the Middle East and Asia - Russia vs the English colonies. Despite the casualties, it probably would have served to better prepare England, France and Russia against any future German moves.

3) I think this would have been an even worse move for the Allies. It exposes more of the British Empire to attack.

4) The Allies would have defeated the Russians, but it wouldn't have been easy. The Allies enjoyed a better air force, better navy, better production, better logistics, better communications and better soldiers. By better soldiers, I mean being allowed to think and take initiative more than their more rigid, orders-controlled Russian counterparts. As for logistics, the Russians were always launching "offensives". I think the word "offensive" in Russian means "refuel & rearm". When the tanks ran out of fuel, the offensive was over. Of course, I could be wrong. I'm going off memories of a research paper I did in high school nearly 30 years ago.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

This is a tough one. If Germany gets pulled in with the Allies against Russia, it could work for them but I think it may have more likely worked against Germany's favour. While the British/French would inflict casualties against the Russians, I doubt it would have been on the scale the Germans did in reality. Such a conflict would have probably ended in a stalemate - with Russia winning the land war but not being able to strike back at England or France. The battle would move to the Middle East and Asia - Russia vs the English colonies. Despite the casualties, it probably would have served to better prepare England, France and Russia against any future German moves.

Arent you missing one little country or two in this equation? Lets start with the US maybe. No lendlease to Russia. Also we did have a bit of an Army , Navy , Airforce and Marines. Another country you seemed to dissmiss is Germany Herself. I really doubt Russia would have stood long against Britain, France Germany, Austrailia, Austria, Canada and the US just to name a few. Ill tell you this if not for Japan we may well have gone the otherway. Its hard to imagine a scenario where the US and Japan are on the same side back then. I also see no real reason to back Stalin over Hitler. If we were really serious about ending war we should have finished the job. Yes it would have cost millions of lifes but it would have saved and freed millions more.

[Gregoshi]

Gawain, I didn't take my thought process out beyond '41 and where the US would jump in. And though I mentioned the possibility of Germany joining England/France against Russia, I really have a bit of a rough time figuring how Germany reacts to all this. I know Hitler was looking east eventually but 1939 doesn't seem like a good time to go for it. Germany was not expecting all out war when it invaded Poland and if England/France leave Germany alone to go after Russia, does Germany dive in, ready or not, or do they take advantage of good fortune and sit out for a little to prepare properly for the war they want (and let their future enemies bleed a little in the process)?


Of course you are right about the US, she tips the scale to whichever side she chooses.