Shogun's response to patch campaign

[AussieGiant]

And it is posts like this that really irk me. Even if this were true (and calling it sabotage and blackmail is not accurate) if the campaign worked we should all be happy. Those of us dense enough to still have an interest in the game would benefit from a proper patch. The irritation should be with the developer, not the consumer.

Having read this post a comment comes to mind.

The first is regarding the good point by Red Harvest;

any action taken by a group of consumers to spread negative or lower values on review sites or magazines is perfectly legal and CA should realise that political lobbying is conducted this way daily in the halls of power throughout the world.

Going head to head with people on this topic is dangerous only because when you "ignore or deal badly with a vocal minority” then you are running the risk of paying a price. That is what defines consumer power. If any one is unsure then the Americans on this board can attest to the effectiveness of “lobby groups” on their political system as example "A" of this concept.

If CA wish to conduct themselves in the manner they choose through their representatives on the official message board then they better hope they don’t annoy a member of the public that is motivated and has plenty of cash or has connections.

For example I could be the Marketing Director of FIFA.

FIFA just signed a huge deal with Sony…who make play stations…which platform does Sega make the most running on?? Who owns CA now?

All of a sudden it becomes very relevant and what I have found is that you never know what is around the corner in big business. Now of course I am nothing of what I mentioned above, but my final point is…if anyone feels motivated enough to organise themselves to conduct a campaign like the one mentioned over the last month…then good luck to them.

And to be perfectly honest. If CA doesn`t like it then stiff shiet!! I hope they get nailed in the Xpack sales.

[AussieGiant]

And something that is really bothering me is a major aspect of this "feature" and how it is initiated.

What seems to be missed by CA is, we are talking about SAVING and LOADING a file!!!

Now if saving and loading files was a "New" piece of functionality in applications then I might see their point.

Given Saving and Loading could easily be argued in a tribunal hearing as "Critical Application Functionality" in any piece of software made in the last 15 years, then the attitude is a little baffling.

Let me give you an example.

While saving or loading a word document, you lose all your spelling and grammar corrections from the last save.

Now while it is not a show stoppper, it is pretty god damn fundamental to the correct running of the application. You could just write the whole document out correctly the first time and then the problem doesn`t exist. However you are writing a thesis...then what do you do?? More importantly, saving and loading word documents has been a "Must Have" piece of funtionality since its creation. This is the same with any application that must provide continuity to be an affective program. Obivously games...AND especially strategy games fall within this category.

It is not a perfect analogy but it is pretty god damn good if I do say so myself. How CA can say that the Saving and Loading of a game should, or is designed to affect the application so drastically and so obviously is nearly indefensible!!!

[Old Celt]

How CA can say that the Saving and Loading of a game should, or is designed to affect the application so drastically and so obviously is nearly indefensible!!!

It's totally indefensible. Someone severely screwed the pooch on this one, and they all know it. Since they've been discovered, there have been the tactics of obfuscation (it's not a bug, it's WAD) and silence in the hopes of waiting the storm out.

I think there has been a gross underestimation of the average intelligence of RTW fans. They are smarter than many, and will not accept Dog and Pony shows to answer questions, nor will they advance challenges without proof and verifiable test cases. The very presence of the Ludus Magna here is testament to that.

[AussieGiant]

It's totally indefensible. Someone severely screwed the pooch on this one, and they all know it. Since they've been discovered, there have been the tactics of obfuscation (it's not a bug, it's WAD) and silence in the hopes of waiting the storm out.

I think there has been a gross underestimation of the average intelligence of RTW fans. They are smarter than many, and will not accept Dog and Pony shows to answer questions, nor will they advance challenges without proof and verifiable test cases. The very presence of the Ludus Magna here is testament to that.

I think you are dead right Old Celt. In a certain way their own initial genius could very well bite them on the ass big time. They have clearly attracted a section of highly motivated, very well educated and connected individuals. Those individuals could represent 10s of thousands.

And I tell you one thing...disseminating information in this day and age is as easy as ever!! They seem to think the internet doesn`t exist or something.

Just think of the "Lurking" numbers on the 3 main boards combined...that is a lot of people just reading a watching.

[.Spartan]

@Aussie - that is why they have gone and banned anyone that shows any faltering in the "party line" at the .com. If you think otherwise just put: "-Spartan" in your signature on any post at the .com and see if you account still works a day later.



Sadly for them I was the wrong person to piss-off. Hell I wish for them to send me a threat as I will tell them what to do with it and publish it in this community as well as many others. I have money as well as business contacts and I never back down from anything.

-Spartan

[AussieGiant]

@Aussie - that is why they have gone and banned anyone that shows any faltering in the "party line" at the .com. If you think otherwise just put: "-Spartan" in your signature on any post at the .com and see if you account still works a day later.



Sadly for them I was the wrong person to piss-off. Hell I wish for them to send me a threat as I will tell them what to do with it and publish it in this community as well as many others. I have money as well as business contacts and I never back down from anything.

-Spartan

@Spartan

You are literally my example in point. I decided not to join the circus over at the .Com coming here was a no brainer in the end.

By banning can`t they see the damage they are doing. The whole thing has been handled badly and what they really need is a PR company to come in and repair the damage, put communications back on the agenda and get things sorted out before someone like yourself goes "nuclear" on their asses.

Having said that, there is nothing like learning from your mistakes. As you have mentioned you are connected, have money and are motivated. Us mature types are the ones they seem to think don`t exist.

Isn`t it just a laugh, just how geeky some of us turn out to be. Their own brilliance has attracted people they have simply no idea about.

Good luck and I hope you get some bang for your buck.

[A.Saturnus]

For example I could be the Marketing Director of FIFA.

FIFA just signed a huge deal with Sony…who make play stations…which platform does Sega make the most running on?? Who owns CA now?

If the fact that you get pissed off by what a developer of CA says to you on a public forum affects your economical decisions, then you probably wouldn't be marketing director of anything very long.

CA will probably not take any legal steps against anyone campagning against them, but it is only natural that they call them saboteurs and don't welcome them on their forum.
CA can do on their forum whatever they want, if you don't like it, don't go there.

It would be Activision's responsibility to finance another patch, but it is obvious that they won't do that. CA is bound by contracts that dictate where they have to put their resources. I assume they could make a developers' patch, but whether it's worth it is a difficult economical question nobody of us can answer.
Sega could finance a patch too, but it might be difficult to explain to their investors why they are paying for a product of a competitor.

I think there has been a gross underestimation of the average intelligence of RTW fans. They are smarter than many, and will not accept Dog and Pony shows to answer questions, nor will they advance challenges without proof and verifiable test cases. The very presence of the Ludus Magna here is testament to that.

Actually, the Ludus Magna has not reached a conclusion on how severe the problem actually is yet.

[Old Celt]

Quote:
I think there has been a gross underestimation of the average intelligence of RTW fans. They are smarter than many, and will not accept Dog and Pony shows to answer questions, nor will they advance challenges without proof and verifiable test cases. The very presence of the Ludus Magna here is testament to that.



"Actually, the Ludus Magna has not reached a conclusion on how severe the problem actually is yet." - A. Saturnus

Point taken, sir, but what I was alluding to was that no other site actually generates quantifiable results and offers real evidence the way the community members of this site do when the occasion calls for it.

My personal opinion is: If you play only 1 or 2 turns per session and save, the level of AI performance is comparable to playing chess against your toaster.

[AussieGiant]

A.Saturnus,

You are absolutely correct. It seems clear the contractual obligations in place means there is no real direction for any of the groups to logically pursue. CA hands are tied for all intense and purposes and that is the end of the topic in all reality and was the case many moons ago. It is my hope that these contractual problems have been ironed out in the new agreement between CA and Sega with regards to the future.

Their handling of the situation is what I am specifically referring to.
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"If the fact that you get pissed off by what a developer of CA says to you on a public forum affects your economical decisions, then you probably wouldn't be marketing director of anything very long.

CA will probably not take any legal steps against anyone campagning against them, but it is only natural that they call them saboteurs and don't welcome them on their forum.
CA can do on their forum whatever they want, if you don't like it, don't go there."
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This comment seems to a be a bit out of kilter with the rest of your post.

I`m not "pissed off" as you describe. He (The CA rep) didn`t speak to me specifically as I am not a member of the forum over there. As for alluding to my future employment, then you are speaking of things beyond what you are aware of. Surely you can see that. For one you are assuming my example is the 100% the truth.

What is 100% true is the deal between Sony and FIFA and the relationship is now a signed deal.

Given how things change, I`m simply pointing out that deals and pressure can be exerted in a variety of ways in international business and what is totally beyond CA`s control is who ends up playing this game and who these people are in "Real" life. By conducting themselves the way they are then ignoring this possibility is at their own peril. This is sound advise and something I have experienced on more than one occasion.

Of course CA does not sponsor a Board for the sole purpose of hearing complaints. But if handled correctly it is an asset, not a excersice in banning and sensoring. Surely you can see the difference between the way yourself and other Mod here handle things and what is happening over there.

That is what is mind blowing to me A.Saturnus

[Shambles]

I say give every 1 the game for free it aint worth the money i had to pay for it,
So Every 1 els should get it for free,

Just so they can See what a load of junk it really is,
Doubt it would even break any copy right's either becous every 1 would probably just uninstall any way,

[Slyspy]

I would like to point out that a number of those issues listed also cropped up in the previous Total War games (suicidal generals and pathfinding being two of them). Some were fixed then, some were not. Either way CA were incompetent enough to either fail yet again to fix them or let them slip anew into RTW. Shoddy. I shall not buy the expansion, though I may reinstall Shogun after uninstalling RTW.